October 1st, 2012 - Tim-388058 said:
For the first time, I'm thinking no. The abortion issue will not go away no matter who is elected. I think the solution to the issue lies elsewhere, not politics. In this land of individual rights, I don't think Roe v Wade will ever be reversed. There are other issues that are very important and could be more influenced by who's in office. That said, I don't think I could EVER vote for a 'pro-choice' candidate. Especially not when they go out of their way to make it an issue by promoting their view in their campaigns.
January 7th, 2012 - Frank-797076 said:
We've become so wishy-washy as Catholic humans that we have a hard time saying it's wrong to kill a baby, no matter where it resides. We'd have no difficulty in telling Hitler he was wrong. Why are we afraid to defend the most defenseless, who count on us to help them. God works through His people. Complacency is a killer in this case.
December 9th, 2011 - John-792287 said:
When dose a child really become a human? Its a really tough question. Some people go so far to say that it is the when the child is conceived; therefore, according to someone with this opinion the morning after pill is technically murder. Some even chose do go further and say the barrier of a condom is a kind of abortion because it stops the process of fertilization. Due to this factors I feel no one will ever agree on when a fertilized egg becomes a child; however, I feel that abortion should be allowed within the Gestational age: when fetus is within 14 days of age. Anytime afterwards I feel the fetus is too developed and should not be partaking in.
I think the real issue here is peoples freedoms. Some women feel that it is there right if they wish not to have a child to abort. I feel it is important for the church to offer the option of pro life, however, they should not condemn those who chose to abort children in the early stages of life (Gestational age).
I feel because of the listed factors above that any catholic choosing to support a pro-abortion candidate should never be excommunicated. What is this the middle ages? The church is no longer part of the state, therefore, the church should never miss use its apostolic power to condemn the people of the church for their political views.
November 18th, 2011 - Matt-784001 said:
This is a very tough issue. I personally do not see how we can, as a society, have 50 different shades of murder/manslaughter/etc... for murdering an autonomous human being, but call this so black and white. It either is or it isn't (I say it is), but I'm also not sure we can impose our own beliefs on others in such a way. As Christians and as Catholics we know how we must act, but God did give us free will, did He not? A very difficult issue; I'm glad I'm not running for president.
October 15th, 2011 - Jackie-693927 said:
Keith, taxation, necessity of war, trade policies,and government handout programs are policies set based on the opinion/decisions of lawmakers. Social issues are, indeed, important concerns. However, murder, including that of an unborn fetus, is an inherent evil, a most serious violation against the law of God.
September 27th, 2011 - Andrew-766945 said:
I'm mixed on this. Clearly, if there is a pro-life candidate available, one should vote for him or her since the sanctity of life trumps all and the unborn are most innocent among us so they take precedence over all other considerations.
However, if you are put in a situation where both candidates are pro-infanticide, then it really comes down to determining who the lesser of the two evils are. I really am not sure on this scenario. On one side maybe it's just better to abstain. After all, choosing a lesser evil is STILL choosing evil. I might consider this situation to be more akin to a sinful act, though whether it's venial or mortal, I'm not sure.
I do believe that a person who knowingly votes against a pro-life candidate and knows Church Teaching should be excommunicated. If a person was somehow ignorant of the matter, they should be informed so as not to repeat the mistake, but not excommunicated.
July 7th, 2011 - Keith-588549 said:
And I'm honestly appalled that people are still falling for that canard of a pro-life candidate. What is pro-life about lying to wage a war on a country that did not attack or threaten us, to kill, displace, or disrupt millions of lives? What is pro-life about setting the tax rates for the millionaires so low that the tax burden is shifted onto the middle class? What is pro-life about allowing Medicare that the elderly and disabled rely on to be eviscerated by rapacious drug companies who got their toadies in the Republican-held Congress to slip in a provision forbidding Medicare from using its buying power to negotiate for lower prices like the VA does? What's pro-life about allowing cheap imports decimate our manufacturing base through lower tariffs forcing parents to take multiple service sector jobs leaving children at home alone? What's pro-life about allowing marriages to crack under the strain of the primary breadwinner being unable to find work and exhausting his unemployment benefits? What is pro-life about waging two wars that drained the federal treasury in giveaways to the military-industrial complex and cutting social programs saying that the country can't afford them? But the lucky monied elite don't want us mentioning those issues. No, they'd rather us fight about saving the life of a fetus in the womb than fight for formula for a baby because the wealthy might be asked to chip an insignificant portion of their amassed wealth.
March 16th, 2011 - Shoshana-700126 said:
NO. If you really believe in the ethic of life, then you accept life as a continuum from "womb to tomb". How is a candidate who supports abortion rights any more offensive than one who supports the death penalty? The life of the unborn child is just as sacred as that of the felon on death row. Can't have it both ways...
January 25th, 2011 - Pat-554286 said:
Yes I would you cant just look at one part of a candidate and not any other. I believe you have to look at the whole pitcher and try to pick the person that will do the most good overall. Most pro life candidates are also pro death penalty are we not also suppose be against this as well. Besides we had a pro life president and congress a few years ago and they didnt even try to stop abortion. We need to put more time and effort into stopping unwanted pregnancies and less time relying on any politician to stop abortion.
October 1st, 2010 - Keith-588549 said:
How about supporting a candidate who sent this country to war based on a lie resulting in the death of thousands? I daresay that there are many in our Catholic community in the who are guilty of that. It's hard to believe that some dioceses in this country proclaimed it a sin to vote for the guy in 2004 who didn't do that.
April 11th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:
This morning's reading produced two more quotes in support of Catholics working hard to let their Faith influence the State:
"The apostolate in the social milieu, that is, the effort to infuse a Christian spirit into the mentality, customs, laws and structures of the community in which one lives, is so much the duty and responsibiity of the laity that it can never be performed properly by others." (Apostolicum Actuositatem, The Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity, #13, from Vatican II)
"Moreover, let the laity also by their combined efforts remedy the customs and conditions of the world, if they are an inducement to sin, so that they all may be conformed to the norms of justice and may favor the practice of virtue rather than hinder it. By so doing they will imbue culture and human activity with genuine moral values... Let them...remember that in every temporal affair they mut be guided by Christian conscience, since even in secular business there is no human activity which can be withdrawn from God's dominion... But that ominous doctrine which attempts to build a society with no regard whatver for religion, and which attacks and destroys the religious liberty of it ctizens, is rightly to be rejected." (From Lumen Gentium, The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, #36, Vatican II)
So much for separation of church and state, a concept to be rejected by Catholics who take their Faith seriously. State religion, no, but religious influence of the State, Yes!
April 10th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:
I believe that Stephanie is correct: there is no law in the US declaring a "separation of church and state." The First Amendment guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. However, it also says Congress cannot create a state religion, such as the Church of England. Our Founding Fathers wishes to escape the 350 years of sectarian violence that had plagued Europe from the Protestant Revolt up until our founding.
She is also correct that even if there were such a law it wouldn't stop us from policing our own or trying to influence culture.
Apostolicum Actuositatem, The Decree on the Appostolate of the Laity from Vatican II, states:
"Christ's redemptive work, while essentially concerned with the salvation of men, includes also the renewal of the temporal order...
"In fulfilling this mission of the Church, the Christian laity exercise their apostolate both in the Church and in the world, in both the spiritual and the temporal orders." AA #5
"The laity must take up the renewal of the temporal order as their own special obligation... The temporal order must be renewed in such a way that, without detriment to its own proper laws, it may be brought into conformity with the higher principles of the Christian life..." AA #7
So we are to influence, change, reform and perfect the temporal (secular) order, being the leven of society and the salt of the earth. Voting correctly is part of that. Catholics used to say, "Redeem the Day!"
April 10th, 2008 - Stephanie-302804 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is technically no law that requires the separation of Church and State. It was merely an idea contrived by Thomas Jefferson that never actually became a law. Even if there were such a law, that law itself would have nothing to do with the excommunication of Catholics who support pro-death candidates.
March 27th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:
There are many good postings here. I especially appreciate the comments by Doreen, Paul and Jeffrey.
Abortion is the most serious moral issue we face today. However, excommunication is a punishment that separates the Catholic from the Sacraments, so the action that provokes it must be clear. Having an abortion or materially assisting in one, by Church law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, automatically excommunicates one, latae sententiae (that is without any formal proceedings required). That is nothing new. The action involved is clear. Anyone working at Planned Parenthood should realize this fact. Even driving someone to an abortion clinic is materially assisting this crime against the child, motherhood and God.
But, “supporting a candidate” is not as clear an action as doing an abortion. There could be many reasons, albeit wrongheaded, for supporting a candidate who happens to be pro-abortion. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it a sin? Well, that depends on the motivation and the way the person balances his or her motives. Is it grounds to separate a person from the Sacraments? Pretty murky. Was everyone who voted for Hitler guilty of mortal sin? I just don’t know, but doubt it. Many were. Maybe some, at least initially, didn’t believe what was going on was real. Maybe others were more focused on the day to day issues affecting their families and just didn’t think much about Jews and Catholics having a “hard time.” They were certainly negligent and perhaps selfish, but should they have been excommunicated: separated from the sacraments? Probably not. Better to have them in Church listening to a fiery homily and receiving grace to unstiffen their necks.
Of course that presupposes priests who will preach on the topic. As in Nazi Germany, there are few priests in America with the courage to preach on the hot moral issues of the day: abortion, homosexual behavior, or birth control. Why are they afraid? Will the bishops castrate them? Will the collection suffer? Do they disagree with the Church? This mystifies me. Is this what it was like in the Germany of the 1930s? We hear about love, love, love and sing “Voice of God” songs like we are already deities, but never any talk about the reasons the family is breaking apart: abortion, birth control, and homosexuality.
I think that excommunication for political matters was usually reserved for people who did scandal, that is, they lead others astray. For example, Queen Elizabeth breaking up the Church, declaring herself head of it in England, confiscating its property, and making being Catholic illegal. She richly deserved excommunication!
A better question might be, "Should Pro-choice politicians who call themselves Catholic be excommunicated?" There it would be easy to give a resounding, “Yes.” As public figures, they are leading others astray and therefore giving scandal: a stumbling block to salvation for the public.
What about Mercy? Even an excommunicant who repents and seeks sacramental confession can be and will be accepted back into the Church. It is repentance and a firm amendment to change that is the requirement for re-admission. Jesus always had mercy for those who repented. I believe he would publicly attack pro-choice leaders today. But the mother who committed an abortion and repented of it would be told to go and sin no more. Only those who have never sinned would be allowed to throw the first stone.
March 26th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
God gave us a brain also doctors as I said this is not a perfect world never was never will be and if some of you want to help raise these children then step up to the plate.WHAT WILL YOU DO BESIDES COMPLAINE? I think the canidates have quite a job ahead of them with everyone. I would hate to have their job but someone has to do it and try to please everyone. Ever wonder why this is a free country? Try tolerence. Also I bet alot of you have great lives and until you walk in someone elses shoes ....you cant make that call. As Catholics yes but were not all together in our beliefs. You should not judge. The Bible talks about that too.
March 26th, 2008 - John-304395 said:
To all those who have equated the Death Penalty and War as elements equal in importance to Abortion when considering political candidates it is obvious that most have not even made a cursory examination of the Catechism which concedes the necessity of Just War in very special circumstances and the Death Penalty in the most extreme circumstance.I challenge all of you to find anywhere in the Catechism that condones Abortion at all. As I have said before if you are opposed to War and the Death Penalty but not abortion you are a hypocrite...Abortion is universally condemned by the Catholic Church and is the greatest slaughter of totally defenseless human life in history!!!!
March 25th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
This is not a perfect world and we have our own lives to live. Abortion is an important issue but we have greater issues with the living. Is it a sin to have sex in the first place? It has a special place,but for most of us who are only human,make mistakes and perhaps with abortions make again another mistake. I understand Jesus died for us and we are told we are not perfect. As much as we try we will never be perfect. I believe we do the best we can. I also bieleve everyone has good in them. I also believe God knows our hearts regardless of our mistakes. I have known people who did have an abortion and did have a really hard time because they did. We are responsible for our sins depending on what we believe. I think we pay a price for our wrong choices regardless.
March 25th, 2008 - De-315276 said:
In this day and age, there are precious few prolife candidates that we are able to support.
For me the question then becomes who is best for our country and while I believe that this issue is very important, it is not the end all and be all for whom I should vote. There are many issues that need to be dealt with and practically speaking, do we really think Roe v Wade can be overturned considering how controversial it is for the country and considering that we have people in both parties both for and against abortion?
Tunnel vision is not a viable option for me when we look at who will be running the country for the next 4 years. At this point, and I am extremely tired of this, we seem to have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
When, oh when, will we have candidates that stand up and not make us promises that they are unable to keep or have no intention of keeping in the first place! Yes, I'm extremely frustrated but I refuse to throw my vote away and I will continue to do my civic duty.
March 16th, 2008 - Stephanie-302804 said:
John- Amen! You're right, if a politician doesn't care about the helpless in society, he/she certainly isn't going to care about those who can help themselves.
Saya- those politicians who care about "conception to birth" ARE wanting to assist "those who are here now". After all, a preborn child is just as much in the here and now as you and I are.
March 15th, 2008 - John-304395 said:
Saya...If your candidate doesnt support life from conception to birth,what makes you think they will support anyone elses needs after they have your misguided vote? Democrats are excellent at the old bait and switch;they sell themselves to you as one thing to get your vote then become someone totally different after they have used you.
February 28th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
I think the Million Man Match is wonderful way for men to gather in faith and stand for God.
I for one like to see a man be a real man, and not some whim, always seeking a womans way.
I love my title, as mother, wife, grandmother, sister, and I never agree with woman's liberation.
God knew what he was doing. I hate to be treated like I am part of the movement of liberal woman.
You go guy. Match and gather your brothers.
February 28th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
Dictating, and teaching what Christ Jesus said, is two different things.
A dictator does not give you freedom, the church only teaches what God and HIS son, taught on earth.
So, you deny that Our God gave the commandment to Moses" thou shall not kill".
God gave you freedom of choice yes, but HE does expect you to do what is right.
We have had the choice between Heaven and Hell, truth and lie, sin and no sin.
So, please do not call this a control issue of the church. You are insulting Christ and HIS Father.
February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:
Men are called to be leaders and high priests of their households. The responsibility is on our gender as I believe men should exhibit two qualities which are endowed by the power of the Holy Spirit which brings Christ-likeness to every believer. They are toughness and tenderness in balance with one another. These attributes are powerful assets that bring about mascaline maturity,uncompromising standards of excellence and God is able to maximize all the gifts he has given us to be effective men, fathers, husbands and leaders. A majority of men in our society have become wimps. What is needed by most believers today is repentance or radical change which is getting real with God where we really experience the true life changing power of Christ in our lives so that others will see His transcendent glory in our lives. What we see today in Christianity is this described from Paul in his 2nd letter to Timothy Chapter 3. Herein is the current state of man and why abortion and irresponsibility is so rampant in our current society. This is tough stuff from a tough man of God but the truth. These things need to be preached in their entirety throughout all of Christendom and we may see a change for the better. This is truth that transcends political correctness a self-righteous attitude of man today which I believe God holds in contempt as emphasized in this powerful prophetic letter from Saint Paul:
1You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them! 6For among them are those who make their way into households and captivate silly women, overwhelmed by their sins and swayed by all kinds of desires, 7who are always being instructed and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people, of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith, also oppose the truth. 9But they will not make much progress, because, as in the case of those two men,* their folly will become plain to everyone.
10Now you have observed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions, and my suffering the things that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra. What persecutions I endured! Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12Indeed, all who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13But wicked people and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, 15and how from childhood you have known the sacred writings that are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is inspired by God and is* useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.
February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:
The Bible gets even more explicit about the pro-life issues especially in the Old-Testament of which many parts are still relevant where they are not changed by the New Testament. We as men also have to behave as men's men after God's heart and not put women in the position to have an abortion. Women also have to learn to exercise self-control and be responsible too. The problem with our society today is it complete lack of responsibility as it is always easier to blame others for their failures. There is no excuse for taking innocent unborn human life.
The waging of a just war against evil tyranical aggressors and using force to deal with dangerous criminals is about the only justification the Church makes on the taking of life. These things are regretable but necessary to prevent evil from running totally amok.
February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:
Jeff,Very interesting and well thought out analysis on the election.
You wrote:Seriously, can you see the lesson in this story? Support whoever you want now, but when we get down to the wire, we had better all swallow our pride and vote for whoever can defeat Satan…or whoever else happens to be running against life.
I would also like to add from experience when we fail to act on God's commands He will not bless us but correct us. That goes for individuals as well as nations. Jesus said "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything shall be added unto you." and "Righteousness exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people." These principles are clear and vote for the pro-abortion candidate may very well bring a cursed presidency where nothing can be delivered on and all goes wrong. This nation is very blessed and may lose that if its people callously continue to murder the innocent. I think we are feeling a little heat now for our current inaction on this. God is just, not a respecter of persons, and will met out what he deems fit. He has done it throughout history as we have seen many nations rise to greatness and then sink into mediocrity. Do we want that to happen to America? Many people have a false sense of security and think this cannot happen. But many people didn't think 9/11 would happen either.
February 25th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
Not according to God. He sent Jesus as our savior, this is not a perfect world. I believe people have to do things in their life and some times not wanting to do wronge but make a decision based on their life ,I think sometimes you have to walk in their shoes.Not to say they are right but they made their choice and they have to live with it.
February 25th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
I think this election has alot to do with more of the things like insurance, being to go to the doctor for preventive illiness and to follow up on it. I feel like I also have to consider people who dont have insurance or money how that effects them.My hearts there right now. Not that I approve of abotion but ther are other issues as important.I think God will realate to what my concerns are.
February 25th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
Im with Leo, Also Im praying about who to vote for because money has alot to do with it. I see alot of changes going on and what once worked is no longer working.I think its time for a change. As for the abortion laws ,we have men dying because of this stupid war. We need to work on something besides oil. Im not so sure if alot of this isnt so much about abortion as it is about change with the weathy taxes.
February 25th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
Your are of course right, but for now, I will put the message from the 122 voters in my family, that we are not happy again.
My statement " to Leo's not paying Tax's" is and Idealist statement" in and Ideal world.
I can tell you this, God knows , we got the message to the GOP last election.
Their Canididate " Linclon Chafee" the one, my family refused to vote for, because of his liberal view, in support of Pro-Choice and gay marriage. We called the National GOP office on the day Mr. Chafee made his public announcement, and we told them, we will lobby against him.
He was the long running, long standing Republician canididate. He did win the primaries, but he did not win the election.
Why, because somewhere God found, that in this man that is in his seat left us better off.
I believe Mr Chafee sold, this State down the river.
I am not and idealist, this is not a perfect world. Mr Mc Cain will be the one running in November, there is not any question of that. He will have our support, but in the meantime, I will do what is in my heart.
Mr Hucklebee will never make it, this is not the ideal world. You jeffrey are right.
February 25th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
Donald thank you, you also. We need to encourage more of the sentiment catholic, to rise up. We are a great nation under GOD , or have we forgot?
Leo, I am thinking, there is one presidental candiate that is worthy of being call Pro_life. Hucklebee, this man is just what Christ has ordered. What an upset in Washington, if the Catholic alone voted for this man. He would get in, but there are other faiths, that believe in LIFE. So coupled with that, a movement would not be as hard has one would think.
Family, family and life, people are tired of all the polictic.
If a movement started, and the message was sent, this country would begin a new spring.
His campaign needs funding from the Pro-life movement, and those who believe in LIFE.
If one person , got one more person, we would pay it forward , until November came, and possibly change the course of this country.
In history, every 20 years, this country has risen up for democary as it was intened by our for-fathers.
I and my family are going to do as much as possible to help Hucklebee.
February 24th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
I am reading many strong arguments for the " Holy Innocent" the unborn slaughter every day. When I say that slowly out loud, with the acknowledgement, that I am standing in the U.S.A. a country founded on and structured on , "One Nation under God" . That we are a nation, that goes to other countries to stop in justice, and bring democarcy. Yet this country that stood strong, on the rights of all both "morally, justly" and with God's laws as their guide, in writing our own Constitution, and the Amendments are we so blind? What is going on in our hearts, in our lives, in everything being copasectic every day. Do not look to far into it, " I cannot stop it" " what can I do", I am not comfortable with being in front of others", "I am to busy, there are others doing it, let them and Oh, God Bless them for doing it". "I have to work", "I have kids", "it cold outside", "it is raining". Well, think of this.
God sent this child to come into this world with tiny little, legs, and feet, and a beautiful smile, soft skin, and that child was going to totally depend on an adult human being to protect it, and care for it. God did not intend for that child to be mutlated, chopped up, and by the way, they have now, without a doubt prove these children suffer harendious pain. Check with the physician, that have done the work, through Saint Thomas Aquinas Law School.
So, what is next we give them soduim pentithal, to kill the pain. Good God, have mercy on us all. Nothing, not one thing on this earth should matter, not one other issue. If you find one compare it to, this.
Today there is a posting that the goveroment is coming threw every town, and they are going to take ever baby male and slaughter then.
Sound familar? Jesus, when they search for him.
Hum, so if you knew this, what would you do? When do we as Catholic's and those other Christian faiths do whatever it takes to send a message to Washington, STOP. YOU will not get our vote, I do not care about healthcare, tax's, human service issues, nothing. Killing babies has to stop, or nothing else will soon matter.
You do have the power, a phone, paper, envelope, and stamp, and internet. Call them, write them, start your family and friend do it too. Start a petition, and lobby against it. If you are a voter, you have rights. Us them , wake up America, so proud, we are killing infants.
February 24th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
I had a child out of wedlock and I had him and glad I did. It is a shame that everyone is different about this subject. I could not go through with an abortion because of how I do feel about my beliefs. My sister sent this to me check it out http://www.virtuemedia.org/television.htm Sorry about the attack.
February 23rd, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
This is what I hear alot of people talk about, Its not that they are for abotion but should their dauaghter get raped by someone undesireable, they what that choice if needed. Not all people handle things the same.Most people think there should be exceptions.
February 23rd, 2008 - David-310230 said:
sometimes there are no good alternatives in an election.i have never voted for a pro-choice candidate,but in an instance like rudy guiliani he was pro choice but said he would appoint conservative judges. the alternative would have been a rabidly pro-choice hillary or barach.so how can you win in a situation like this?not voting,or giving a vote to a nonviable 3rd party candidate is tantamount to a vote for hillary or barach.
February 23rd, 2008 - Gregory-121459 said:
YES! Look, Abortion is a life or death issue, nothing else matters if you aren't alive first. The churches teaching is clear, its not confusing, only people make it confusing. the Church did not make parties, we did, so to say that the church can't excommunicate over this "party" issue is nuts. The Church excommunicates over philosphies, not parties. People can reap the consequences of their stupid pro choices. People who think is abortion is just a political issue need their head examined, its a moral issue and there is right and wrong. Supporting pro abortion candidates is wrong. I understand the case for "lessening" abortions. But there is zero excuse to vote for a "less abortions" candidate, when you can vote for a "no abortions" candidate. Only when there is not an option for a "no" can "less" be an option.
February 23rd, 2008 - Kevin-45953 said:
This is coming from a devout pro-lifer, but I answered "under no circumstances." One, it comes close to the Church dictating not only what principles to uphold when voting, but for what candidates.
Second, its impossible to determine the intent of such a vote. Misguided as I might think pro-lifers voting for Obama are, I would never say they are voting for him because of his stance on abortion. They could also (correctly) view the executive branch as an ineffectual way to stop abortion.
As far as Leo and not paying taxes, Christ demanded we render undo Caesar, even though the Roman government was full of immorality and unjust practices.
February 20th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
This is about a Catholic taking a public stand as Judas did against God. He sold Jesus, and the truth for peice of silver. The politician that are Catholic as sell Christ and HIS truth. Believe me since I and deeply involved in politic's, and study it in law. I can tell you, the game is you support what we represent , and we will give you the silver, to get elected. It is not what you think or what the Jews voting Rabbie thinks, or the Minister down the road. It is private interest, and the Pro-choice, abortion groups, have kill so many children for money and the politican wash their campaigns in it.
I do not care if you are a little guy, any voice you have should be for Christ and any opportunty you get to stand up for the truth is a test, as to whether you will be as Abraham was, with his son. Will you do as Christ ask , at all cost.
So, if you know you faith, and the scripture, and know as a christian not just Catholic, that Christ said, thou shall note kill, you have an obligation to make sure, you do not vote for someone that is going to support murder, or in God's eyes, you are and excessory. You have them the tools, the opportunity, maybe that is what it will take, is more of us, saying, " your not going to get in", unless you do the right thing. By the way 68% of my state is Catholic, and the majority of this country if Catholic. guess what , they are not living like Catholic's. We are the majority religion in this country. Sad, how sad, we are not strong like our for-fathers. I am hearing more men on this site, and their concerns about pro-life and protecting the unborn. Not to say, there are not woman, but the men, so not reason with God. Perhaps, they have more wisdom, we are not surpose to reason with God. HE is the ALFA, Omega, THE ONE AND ONLY KING.
February 20th, 2008 - John-304395 said:
With regard to abortion there is no gray area.If you are Catholic you cannot publicly support or announce to others that you have voted for a Pro-Choice candidate.If your only support of such a candidate is in the privacy of the voting booth then that is a matter between the voter and God.
February 20th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
Imust be making someone mad. Its not my intention only to make people understand Its not that black and white. Only if you have that knowlge. Then you have to believe it. Im with you I wish it wasnt like that.For me I do what I can to discourage it.
February 20th, 2008 - Doreen-165926 said:
What is the differents, Hitler did not stand there and personally kill the Jews and Christian, but he gave the order.
Do you truly believe in your heart, that with your knowledge of Christ, and HIS father,and HIS will for life, that HE is the creator, the Prince of life, the King of Heaven earth, that one mere human has a right to take the life that GOD HIMSELF Created in that mothers, wound.
Nor should we give the power, or voice or justify, by acceptance, that this is alright. We do prosecute murders, if you knew someone was going to murder your child, or give someone else the right to murder your child, you would vote for them. You would think, well it is alright for the church to accept this and just let it slide. No, then the circumstance change then it touches home. It should touch home for every single one of us, that these United States are murdering children in cold blood, in pain, and without a conscience, and society like the German accepted it as a way of life. Life went on for those accepted, they work, love and their families members were safe. For those to be slaughtered, life was a horror, you know what, we are worse, more innocient children in the USA have been murdered than Jews and Christian and Jews by Hitler and we just keep accepting it. Why because we have our own agenda in keeping things the way they are, tax', programs for human services, all the things attach to the other end of life. But we must not compromise a child's life, as you would not want anyoone to discard your child, or family member.
no one, not even the church is saying, you are going to hell. But they are sending a messaged to the person and the world. If you do not live by the Majestrium of the church, the Dogma, the teaching of Christ, and the criteria for being a Catholic, then you in every sense of the word, are not Catholic. If you do not follow the rules in what you say you are, than why do you believe you are that?
There are many other faiths, that do believe in abortion, God is not afraid of losing them, right now, they are lost. Our job, is to pray for them, but it is also the job of the church to send a message, as Christ did to the whore, go and sin no more. When they are ready to accept it is sins. God will enlighten them, but they have to be removed and feel the lost to begin to recognizes, the sin. God loves, but HE reject the sin. We have an obligation to stand firm, and pray for them to return to the truth but, you must shake off your sandals and move on.
Are we for Christ or for make the world feel accepted. I am for Christ, and HE took down the temple, if you remember. That is HIS job to do, just remove them , so they are reminded, there is a truth to live up to, and God will handle taking down their temple and rebuilding it.
The church has failed, not some of our priest has, and fair of popularity, funds, personal conviction vs, God teachings. etc..... God will handle them also. they need prayers also.
February 20th, 2008 - Jeannette-316726 said:
No,because the canidates have to be for all people not just Catholics. If the world was perfect that might happen. Im just saying its a bigger picture. We should not judge everyone has choices. I myself would not get a abortion. It would be a perfect world if we all believed the same.We dont.Lets continue to do Gods work to educate and hope it changes.I think women will still get abortions but like they use to do in alleys. There are other ways to look at this. Poor people have their children and have a hard time. Taxes goes for that. We should as cathoics help the ones in need.We catholic have to live in a evil world. It seems like some are mad because our taxes go for that but its people with money that get abortions. People who are poor have children and get help from the goverment.I think its a bigger picture than we think. I myself will keep praying the rosery for all.