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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Sep 8th 2012 new

(Quote) Sandra-471894 said: Good subject.I was baptized, made first communion, and was confirmed in the traditional ...
(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:


Good subject.
I was baptized, made first communion, and was confirmed in the traditional Cathlic church from 1955 through the early 60's.
From my perspective; I experienced a more serious display of the faith; with respect to how we go about the Mass and behavior in the church.
Also, my Mother was raised by a Mother who had almost taken her vows at 18 to become a nun. (she left the convent married, and raised 4 children) I would say that I was exposed to very strict adherence to the faith. For example we did not eat meat on fridays; and was told that if we did we may end up on a path of damnation. Today we do not teach some of these religous aspects of the Catholic faith.

I also noticed growing up in a traditional Catholic community that most people would jenuflect when entering and leaving the church, and always when crossing past the cucifix; now I rarely see this being done. We were also taught not to chew the communion host; to allow it to disolve. We were taught not to open our mouths for a time after communion, even to sing. The choir was not to be in view of the parishoners, to keep all the thoughts and glory to Christ. We never clapped in applaud for anyone during Mass. Women from teenage years covered their hair, to keep modesty in our hearts.

Many other differences, but to me, kept us more focused on Christ rather than self and others.........
...are we more or less faithful Catholics, no..............
Like various tools for anything, can make a huge difference in how one acts, feels, and thinks.
I feel that this type of traditional teaching may have greatly affected how a traditional Catholic appeared to be, by others.

--hide--


ps: for example..............we can climb a mountian with many tools and aids which may or may not help us to our goal.
or we can climb a moutian with less tools and aids, which may or may not help us to our goal.
being serious about the faith to some are a constant focus on Christ's suffering, and in no way a intent to be harsh to others or introverted.
I would like to speak to people in church more, to be more extroverted, but was taught from a small child to remain silent in preparation of the eucharist, and with solmon heart when leaving the church. We would speak and socialize once outside the church.
Is anything wrong with this way? no, nor is the new way. The vatican says so,,,,,,,,,,,,so being understanding of why traditional Catholics behave the way you spoke of is a start to being more charitable to them. rosary

Sep 8th 2012 new

rosary

In Christ

Also, as growing up in a Traditonal Catholic culture, (nation wide), we were offered a choice between a Latin or English Mass. The language does not particularly difine "Traditional",,,,,,,it is apart of the Traditional Catholic culture. We were offered on most Sundays either a high or low Mass. rosary At the vatican I believe the Mass is still Taditional High Mass.

I fee that with the Vaticans desire to promote the Catholic faith to protestants and others, the new way was more appealing and not so strict; and hence more converts................

However, the new style Catholics should be more understood by the traditional Catholics, and the same for them by the new.

........I have feelings also, from being taught in the Traditional Catholic faith (and being a extrovert) that when I walk into the Church preparing fr the eucharist, I feel out of place to some degree when some are in quiet prayer, and some are sitting talking amongst one another.
If I had done this during my Catholic upbringing many would look at me as if I had done something wrong.
So, in defense of how some traditional Catholics behave is primarily due to how they were taught and not their desire tCho be offensive.
In fact some of them may feel offended by the way the new way is being taught. It's just different ways to honor our Lord.
It's a choice to choose one or the other, and as Christ said, we must be charitable to others.rosary

Sep 9th 2012 new
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Good points. I do not generalize or paint all with the same brush. I've met nice people in these c...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:



Good points. I do not generalize or paint all with the same brush. I've met nice people in these communities. But, the OP asked if people had run into rigitidity, and the answer is definitely a yes.

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Very good and interesting topic. I have been attending a Traditional Latin Mass for about 1 year now. Before that I attended the Tridentine mass every now and then, and most every week attended the typical, "picnic music," as Jerry, San Diego, would have it, mass. laughing

At one point I had to make a decision about parish registration, and I decided to keep both parishes. Yes, the Latin Mass is more traditional in scope, but there is something in the purity of the mass that keeps me grounded and focused on being Catholic, probably it is the music and the ritual of the mass. I love the other parish as well, and it is more convenient to go to, but I have found deeper spiritual renewal at the TLM lately.

I find it just difficult to concentrate and pray when there are so many people surrounding me, and kids running up and down the pews. The singing is more fun, as everyone sings, not just a choir. I think the people who attend the TLM probably are more politically conservative. As far a rigid, I don't know, as usually I am not very social at any church. Church has always been mainly spiritual for me, and not so much social. I have found Catholics in So. California anyway, to be very quiet about faith.
Sep 9th 2012 new
As far as "uptight and introverted," I think when at the TLM, it is more solemn, and this mode of prayer could be deemed "introverted."
Sep 9th 2012 new

Thanks everyone,


The broad-brushed way of asking this question probably wasn't fair. It's just a matter of who you choose to surround yourself with I suppose.


rosary


God bless,


Jim

Sep 9th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-388330 said: Thanks everyone, The broad-brushed way of asking this question probably wasn't fair....
(Quote) Jim-388330 said:

Thanks everyone,


The broad-brushed way of asking this question probably wasn't fair. It's just a matter of who you choose to surround yourself with I suppose.


God bless,


Jim

--hide--



You have to try both types of masses and try to socialize with the various people you might meet there. here we have a 3:00 Latin Mass and the people stand outside and tlak afterward. It is easy to gto up and join in and talk- especially if you are male- I am sure they would be open to a greeting and discussing anything. I think sometimes it is harder for a woman to approach certain groups who are talking unless there is another woman there. I enjcourage you to try both and see how it feels to you- you may find that you might like doing both! Plus there are young ladies your age who attend the Latin mass that you might meet there.

Sep 9th 2012 new

(Quote) Sandra-471894 said: In ChristAlso, as growing up in a Traditonal Catholic culture, (nation wide), we...
(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:



In Christ

Also, as growing up in a Traditonal Catholic culture, (nation wide), we were offered a choice between a Latin or English Mass. The language does not particularly difine "Traditional",,,,,,,it is apart of the Traditional Catholic culture. We were offered on most Sundays either a high or low Mass. At the vatican I believe the Mass is still Taditional High Mass.

I fee that with the Vaticans desire to promote the Catholic faith to protestants and others, the new way was more appealing and not so strict; and hence more converts................

However, the new style Catholics should be more understood by the traditional Catholics, and the same for them by the new.

........I have feelings also, from being taught in the Traditional Catholic faith (and being a extrovert) that when I walk into the Church preparing fr the eucharist, I feel out of place to some degree when some are in quiet prayer, and some are sitting talking amongst one another.
If I had done this during my Catholic upbringing many would look at me as if I had done something wrong.
So, in defense of how some traditional Catholics behave is primarily due to how they were taught and not their desire tCho be offensive.
In fact some of them may feel offended by the way the new way is being taught. It's just different ways to honor our Lord.
It's a choice to choose one or the other, and as Christ said, we must be charitable to others.

--hide--


Hi Sandra,

Yes, I remember the old Tridentine Mass, too, and I very much prefer it to the modern spectacle. But, that is history. The re-invention of the tridentine is a different experience, because most of the people there including the priests have no memory of the old version so they have tried to re-invent it as best they can, to their credit. But, it sometimes comes out a little bit stilted. Before you had all Catholics going to the Tridentine Mass, so it was a big, bustling, multivariagated community with intro and extroverted and everywhere in between. There was a natural reverence and sacredness that was not forced.

Regarding the Introverted and Uptight image, I am reminded of an article by a priest in a magazine, I think it was in The Remnant, who waxed on for several pages about the various sub-forms of Traditional or Conservative Catholics and which ones were really traditional and more worthy of respect versus which ones were not quite good enough for him and therefore less so. I remember thinking, Boy, this guy has way too much tome on his hands! The last thing we should be doing is obsessing about the subtle ways we are different. Rather we should be pulling for Ut Unum Sint, as Christ prayed in his Great priestly prayer in John, before his passion: that they may be one. Trads should be teaching picnic-ers about reverence and the great patrimony of sacred music, not squabbling about who is more Trad than the Joneses. Likewise, Catholics should be finding common ground with our Evangelical and Methodist cousins, because we have alot more in communion with them than we do with the godless atheists who have taken over the Democratic Party and much of the government. Was this Father (in The Remnant) uptight and introverted: you bet.

All that said, I've met some wonderful people at Tridentine Mass parishes. I've just got a little bit of a guard up because of that experience (in a different city) based on my friend. Maybe, as Jerry implies, much of that was the nature of my friend.

Sep 9th 2012 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: Very good and interesting topic. I have been attending a Traditional Latin Mass for about 1...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

Very good and interesting topic. I have been attending a Traditional Latin Mass for about 1 year now. Before that I attended the Tridentine mass every now and then, and most every week attended the typical, "picnic music," as Jerry, San Diego, would have it, mass.

At one point I had to make a decision about parish registration, and I decided to keep both parishes. Yes, the Latin Mass is more traditional in scope, but there is something in the purity of the mass that keeps me grounded and focused on being Catholic, probably it is the music and the ritual of the mass. I love the other parish as well, and it is more convenient to go to, but I have found deeper spiritual renewal at the TLM lately.

I find it just difficult to concentrate and pray when there are so many people surrounding me, and kids running up and down the pews. The singing is more fun, as everyone sings, not just a choir. I think the people who attend the TLM probably are more politically conservative. As far a rigid, I don't know, as usually I am not very social at any church. Church has always been mainly spiritual for me, and not so much social. I have found Catholics in So. California anyway, to be very quiet about faith.
--hide--


Hi Jacqui,

So many good points you bring up here. I have gone to St. Annes, and the old Mass in the cenetary, more than several times, and have loved it. One time, I think it was Christmas 2008, they did a sung vespers and then did a Christmas Mass with Bishop Cordiloeone, and it was one of the most beautiful experiences one could imagine.

These days, I gpo to picnic Mass 3 weeks a month, but tend to go to the Latin version of the Novus ordo Mass once a month at Our Lady of the Rosary. It is the Mass the way the Pope says it (almost), with the common parts in Latin and the readings and Prayers of the faithful in the vernacular, both just as Vatin II intended. The choir is wonderful, singing chant, polyphony and hymns in 4 part harmony. Never a juvenile picnic song there! The priests have been very good, and they are learning the Latin more fluently. I've also attended a Mass for a Bishop there, with Bishop Cordiloeoni again celebrating. This community used to have pizza and wine in the park jusgt after Sunday Mass, which I thought was the greatest idea since sliced bread. Later, when kicked out of the park, they met in the parish hall, with lots of food, wine, and kids running about. Thjen, I guess the parish didn't want them their so now people just chat for a few minutes on the steps and then go home...just like in picnic parishes: community not as evident. But, what I am learning is that tight bonds have already been built between some of the rgulars from the days of the wine and pizza, and they do things together. If you or anyone is interested, mass is second Sunday each month at OLR in Little Italy, San Diego.

Regarding children, I love them and welcome them, but I do not understand modern parents who refuse to teach schoolage kids how to behave. The problems is the parents, not the kids. Kids should always be welcome, but by the time you are 5 you should know how to act in public. And Mass is public. If you don't, your parents have failed you. Recently, at a picnic parish, I whispered to a schoolage kid in froont of me who refused to stand for the Gospel, "Son, stand up for the Gospel." The mother, whose kids were slouching down with their feet on the pew, reaching their games, gave me a shocked look that said mind your own business. I asked her if the boy could stand (thinking maybe he were handicapoped). She glared at me with a look that would freeze lava, and said yes. I thought I may have overdone it, but later, at the "peace be with you" (she refused to even look at me) the elderly folks behind me gave me a great big grin, so I guess they saw it (or maybe they're just happy). I shook the boy's hand and gently said Peace be with you young man. Someone needs to tell him he is a young man, not an animal. We need to encourage good behavior in the kids around us, I think, because teachers and parents certainly aren't.

Same goes for people who let their dogs bark and bite. Terrible. I was on a yacht over labor day and someone let their putrid little lap dog bite another boat owner, ripping up his finger. No consequences for the dog at all. Poor little dog, bit a man, poor thing! I would have poundded the living daylights out of that dog so he would think twice before ever doing that again. Have we no sense of being an adult, a parent, an animal owner? Are we all perpetual children stuck in endless summer? Are we afraid to act over 30 since the 60s generation never trusted anyone over 30?

Sep 9th 2012 new

Oh, boy; I should have edited those posts better. Sorry.

Sep 10th 2012 new

Being a traditionalist myself, this uptight and introverted attitude can be seen in two circles, practice/devotion and unapproachability. When a traditionalist attends the Norvus Ordo they may incorporate the pratices(rubrics) of the Latin rite into the new rite. For example: genuflecting during the Creed at the words...... "and became man", kneeling during the Sanctus, Pater Noster, and thru the Agnus Dei until Holy Communion. Some also do not go to a Eucharistic Minister,only the priest, and some also kneel for Communion! To those who regulary attend a Norvus Ordo mass this person who is performing these "acts of devotion" COULD be misconscrued as being uptight and introverted.


The unapproachability could be seen at the Norvus Ordo. Because of their practices some may think themselves as better. Like I'm being reverent you are not so I AM better! I do not subcribe to this attittude. It's not about being better. I do the above mentioned practices(except kneeling for Communion- many priests will deny giving Holy Communion on your knees - there have been exceptions) I am only doing what is truly in my heart. I do go on occasion to a Norvus Ordo mass - even though I do not do it for attention. Moreso out of not being able to attend a Latin Mass(due to personal, weather or travelling issues) For me. REGULARLY attending the Norvus Ordo at a church would be a distraction to others. But it is only occasional! I cannot read what is in other traditionalists' minds there MAY BE those seeking attention. I dont know.



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