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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indee...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date...I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.
--hide--
Hi Laura,

Thanks for your feedback. There is an article by Lisa Duffy right here on Catholic Match about this very topic. It is called The 3rd Biggest Mistake: Dating Without An Annulment. www.catholicmatch.com You will find this there: "But truth be told, you shouldn’t be dating, in a serious relationship, or engaged unless you have a decree of nullity in hand." The emphasis is hers, not mine.

Lisa Duffy also co-authored the book called Divorced. Catholic. Now What? www.amazon.com


Getting back to your reply: It would be helpful to hear how your priest, and other priests, justify (via theology, morality, etc.) their sidestepping of the things we know to be true, like indissolubility of marriage, marriage has the favor of the law, etc. Those details would be good to learn, because a generic statement saying the priest approves the dating, does not say why he approves it, i.e., what Teachings of the Church does he use to back up his statement of approval when we believe dating to be errant?

Based on the many comments in various threads from people who say their priest has given them the okay to start dating while the review of their marriage is underway and the file is still open, I would say there are many priests who do not abide by Canon Law and the Ten Commandments when it comes to counseling lay people on this topic.


Thought: If I wondered about my personal circumstances, I would make an appointment with my priest to discuss the specifics mentioned above. If he still claims that dating is ok, then I would make an appointment with another priest, one that is known to be a solidly orthodox, i.e., traditional, Catholic priest, and get a second opinion, just like we do with doctors. He could be outside of my Diocese. I would show the article and book above to both priests, and any other write ups that help, including Canon Law. I would discuss it all with both of them - and pray a lot. Pray for God's will. Pray for guidance. Pray for the priests. Pray for my own inner peace. Pray for my ex-husband and children.

Talking directly with priests about these things is prudent. It is okay to disagree with them and ask them what to do next, if something next is needed.


Kathleen


Here are some excerpts from Canon Law that are relevant.

Can. 1056 The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility, which in Christian marriage obtain a special firmness by reason
of the sacrament.

Can. 1060 Marriage possesses the favor of law; therefore, in a case of doubt, the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is
proven.

They can be found at www.vatican.va

09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Brenda-74660 said: At the time I applied for mine a Deacon at my church suggested if I wasn't engaged to get ma...
(Quote) Brenda-74660 said:

At the time I applied for mine a Deacon at my church suggested if I wasn't engaged to get married again, it wasn't necessary. I wanted to know I was free to marry in the church if I found someone special...
--hide--
Brenda, I did a similar thing, except my parish supported the idea. I applied for an annulment when I was single and not even interested in being involved yet with someone new. Something very spiritual was prodding me. I just needed to know if I was free, free from my marriage. There was no other reason.

Kathleen

09/13/2012 new
(Quote) Kathleen-878558 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, ...
(Quote) Kathleen-878558 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date...I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.

Hi Laura,

Thanks for your feedback. There is an article by Lisa Duffy right here on Catholic Match about this very topic. It is called The 3rd Biggest Mistake: Dating Without An Annulment. www.catholicmatch.com You will find this there: "But truth be told, you shouldn’t be dating, in a serious relationship, or engaged unless you have a decree of nullity in hand." The emphasis is hers, not mine.

Lisa Duffy also co-authored the book called Divorced. Catholic. Now What? www.amazon.com


Getting back to your reply: It would be helpful to hear how your priest, and other priests, justify (via theology, morality, etc.) their sidestepping of the things we know to be true, like indissolubility of marriage, marriage has the favor of the law, etc. Those details would be good to learn, because a generic statement saying the priest approves the dating, does not say why he approves it, i.e., what Teachings of the Church does he use to back up his statement of approval when we believe dating to be errant?

Based on the many comments in various threads from people who say their priest has given them the okay to start dating while the review of their marriage is underway and the file is still open, I would say there are many priests who do not abide by Canon Law and the Ten Commandments when it comes to counseling lay people on this topic.


Thought: If I wondered about my personal circumstances, I would make an appointment with my priest to discuss the specifics mentioned above. If he still claims that dating is ok, then I would make an appointment with another priest, one that is known to be a solidly orthodox, i.e., traditional, Catholic priest, and get a second opinion, just like we do with doctors. He could be outside of my Diocese. I would show the article and book above to both priests, and any other write ups that help, including Canon Law. I would discuss it all with both of them - and pray a lot. Pray for God's will. Pray for guidance. Pray for the priests. Pray for my own inner peace. Pray for my ex-husband and children.

Talking directly with priests about these things is prudent. It is okay to disagree with them and ask them what to do next, if something next is needed.


Kathleen


Here are some excerpts from Canon Law that are relevant.

Can. 1056 The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility, which in Christian marriage obtain a special firmness by reason
of the sacrament.

Can. 1060 Marriage possesses the favor of law; therefore, in a case of doubt, the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is
proven.

They can be found at www.vatican.va

--hide--
Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.
09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible w...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.
--hide--

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..

09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible w...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.
--hide--
Thanks for your feedback, Laura. It sounds like your marriage was painful. I am sorry to hear that. I do wonder, though, what Church Teachings and Canon Law your priest was relying upon when he told you that as long as you believe/think you will not go back to your ex-, it is okay to date without a Decree of Nullity. I have never seen that in any Church documentation, or in any widely accepted articles or books about this topic, even when there has been spousal abuse.

I hope you refer back to my previous posts, and to the article, book, and Canon Law mentioned in them. I also hope you discuss this with your priest, and do the same with another priest if you contact one for a second opinion. Bring a printout if you need to.

I wish you the best and I will keep you in my prayers.

Kathleen

09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not ...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..

--hide--
For me, the technicality lies in what is stated, e.g., marriage enjoys the favor of the law, marriage is indissoluble, etc. Those make it pretty clear that one is considered married in the eyes of the Church unless a Decree of Nullity is issued. They also make it pretty clear that these priests are in error.

Then there is the case when a person's annulment is not approved in the end, i.e., a Decree of Nullilty is never issued and the marriage has been confirmed valid. This has happened and I wonder if all these priests would approve ongoing dating after that. It seems like they would not, and yet they have misled people to thinking it is okay to date while considered married in the eyes of the Church.

In reference to conservative Catholics, I do not see how being conservative negates Church law. The Truth is the truth.

In petition for holy priests,
Kathleen

09/13/2012 new

Maybe they defer starting their annulment process so that busy boodies can ask them why. wink

09/13/2012 new
(Quote) Donna-83441 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to dat...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..

--hide--
Hi Donna, your comment is what I have heard from many, that there is nothing directly stating you cannot date. I guess that leaves it all to each their own.
09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Donna-83441 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen,...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Donna-83441 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..


Hi Donna, your comment is what I have heard from many, that there is nothing directly stating you cannot date. I guess that leaves it all to each their own.
--hide--



No really you cannot date, you are only permitted to have a casual date, anything serious or beyond that is not permitted.

09/13/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Donna, your comment is what I have heard from many, that there is nothing directly stating you cannot...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Donna, your comment is what I have heard from many, that there is nothing directly stating you cannot date. I guess that leaves it all to each their own.
--hide--
Dear Laura, in a way, you are correct. The details each person puts down about their family and marital history, on the annulment paperwork, is all to each their own, because we all have different circumstances.

When it comes to dating and marital behavior, however, it is not all to each their own. They are governed by things like Canon Law and Church Teachings. Each of us is subject to the same rules, e.g., without a Decree of Nullity, a person is seen as married in the eyes of the Church. Dating while married is adultery.

You can get confirmation of this here in the other threads on annulment. If you can't find the links, let me know and I will post them.

Kathleen

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