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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

Sep 14th 2012 new
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: I have started the annulment process. I have an entire thread about dragging my feet. It is said we make th...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

I have started the annulment process. I have an entire thread about dragging my feet. It is said we make the best choices we have with the information that we have at the time. My mistake was in not discerning that I was marrying a man who would abuse me. I was so ashamed at the behavior I allowed for several years, and my own error in judgment, that there was no way I could even approach God for forgiveness, much less start talking to a person about all those questions. I would hazard to say that there are more cases of a similar nature.

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Forgiving oneself is the hardest yet most important step in the divorce/annulment process... Praying for healing of memories for all those who need it.
Sep 14th 2012 new

Hi.


I think that a lot of them really don't want to get married again so this is the card they can play if things get serious. When I got divorced I immediately got my anullment going. If getting remarried in the Catholic Church is important then ditch these dudes and find someone who really wants to get married. Make sure there actions are consistent with there words. If a guy or girl really wants to get remarried as a Catholic then they would have acted accordingly.


Steve

Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Kathleen-878558 said: The reality is that a person without a fin...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Kathleen-878558 said:

The reality is that a person without a final Decree of Nullity is considered married to their former spouse in the eyes of the Church. We only become free to date/marry after the final Decree of Nullity is actually issued. That means that dating at any point in the annulment process before a final Decree, if it is indeed issued, would be seen as adulterous. If I am wrong about that, I hope someone clears it up, but I don't think I am.

I think a lot of people do not know that, or care to know that, as can be seen by the number of divorced people dating on this site.


Kathleen




Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date. The reality is, if I'm still married to my ex, then I can continue having sex with him in the eyes of the church. Sex without the civil marriage and financial commitment of the marriage. That's better than getting an annulment, when I would not be allowed to have sex with anyone then. I know that sounds preposterous, but if I'm still married to the ex, we can have sex without further commitment. Just saying. I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.
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Way TOO much NO NO NO on this site!

Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Brenda-74660 said: (Quote) Patricia-29176 said: But at that time I don't think CM wa...
(Quote) Brenda-74660 said:
Quote:
Patricia-29176 said:




But at that time I don't think CM was even onsite, so I doubt that you were looking to date/get into serious relationship? My question is really about why gentlemen (and ladies) who are really looking for a "relationship" ( and not just friendship) haven't started their annullment, because obviously the end result of a relationship (that works) in the Catholic Church would be marriage in the Church. One gentleman said to me when I asked him is that he didn't know why he hasn't started his annullment (and had been divorced over 20 years)!




At the time I applied for mine a Deacon at my church suggested if I wasn't engaged to get married again, it wasn't necessary. I wanted to know I was free to marry in the church if I found someone special...
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When the Church can't get their act together then I say - Let it be and let people live their lives. In my case the ex did only Separation not a divorce to hold me hostage - Church wouldn't do anything!

Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..

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Thank you Donna - now I know I'm not crazy!

Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Cindy-534370 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote)
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Cindy-534370 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said:
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Donna-83441 said:

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Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen, thanks for your input. My priest stated it was ok to date as long as there is no possible way for my ex husband and I to get back together. That way the person i am dating is not standing between my ex and I and effecting the chance of reconciliation from occurring. Due to the horrific events that caused my marriage to end, I told him I would never return to my ex, he did the most hidious things a human being can do to another. Therefore, he said ok to dating. And yet I filled out annulment papers ONLY so that I may be married in the church again, not because I was concerned about adultery. My priest and the rest of the priests in my parish are excellent people. They all give an ok to dating with the stipulation that their can be no reconciliation possible. I do have the question out there and wondered...if people are have a civil law divorce, but no annulment...then they can continue having casual sex with no emotional attachment to the person, because through cannon law...they are still married.? That argument seems to stand true if I am still married according to the church.

I think the technicality is that there is nothing that directly says you may not date.. It says you may not marry in the Church without an annulment.. So many priests will say it is okay to date with the understanding that you cannot get married in the Church without a finalized annulment. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a lot of ways the most Conservative Catholics are drawn to CM because they see it as the best way to find a Catholic spouse and I've seen it written that the Forums draws out the most Conservative of them.. People who don't care quickly get bored with the conservativeism and go find a spouse on POF or Match..


Hi Donna, your comment is what I have heard from many, that there is nothing directly stating you cannot date. I guess that leaves it all to each their own.




No really you cannot date, you are only permitted to have a casual date, anything serious or beyond that is not permitted.


If this argument was true, then that means the church has no problem with me having sex with my ex because we are " still married". Even though I'm legally divorced. It's the same side of your argument, not the opposite side. I do not plan on marrying until my son's future is made clearer to me. I'm thinking it will be a long time. If many priests are ok with us dating, I have a harder time that lay people could judge others for dating. Who among us is to say your going to hell, I believe in mercy and truly believe Jesus will forgive us, adulterous or not. My ex committed adultery while married, but I believe Jesus will save him from hell. And I hope the same for him because I hold no ill will over his act. That's practicing faith...if people don't want to get their marriage annulled, and not marry in the catholic church if they marry again, then I wish them the best. I will not judge them and say your going to hell committing adultery.
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Laura, RIGHT ON! Besides, when the Church grants the annulment, does that say those years you were 'fornicating'?

Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-624621 said: I broke up[ with the last person I dated, and I have decided not to date anyone in the future who ...
(Quote) Jim-624621 said:

I broke up[ with the last person I dated, and I have decided not to date anyone in the future who does not have an annulment and is not immediately available for sacramental marriage. Here is what happened.

I went on a few dates with her in 1997, and we became friends, but not especially close friends. We were the same age and had many friends in common in the same city. At the time I did not have my annulment either, but I was working on it. I got my annulment in 1998.

In early 2012, I saw her out at a local function in which I was attending alone (which I hate doing), and she actually sat closer to me than she did to the guy that brought her there; we were all at the same table. Afterward, we started talking through Facebook and wound up planning to go on a date. On the very first date, we started to discuss things, and I rediscovered that she did not and was not planning to get an annulment. I told her that this would be a deal breaker for me, and that we would not be able to date, and I would never be able to marry her. In the course of the conversation, she agreed to get the annulment, but here were her initial reasons against it.

1) Her son would be considered illegitimate. (False, but a common misconception)

2) She did not want to have to involve the ex-husband, even so little as to leave the decision of the annulment to the justice and jurisdiction of the tribunal.

3) I don't want to think about all of that stuff; it was 20 years ago.

Those were the only arguments she made against it, and she initially agreed to get the annulment. But when I got her the telephone number of the person to speak with at the diocese about starting to actually do it, she changed her mind again. So I told her that without an annulment, we were wasting our time, and I stopped seeing her, though she has made repeated attempts to get me to date her again, I continue to refuse, and will continue to refuse for more than just the annulment.

These reasons that she has given are an indication to me of a couple of things that are not healthy. Thinking that your son will be considered illegitimate if you got an annulment shows ignorance, but once presented with the facts about the children of a divorced and annulled family, to continue in that misguided belief is simply stupid and willfully ignorant. How can I respect that? And to not want to have any conversation of any kind with the ex-husband, after 20 years of divorce for even so important a reason is this shows a lack of maturity, and for the same reasons that she got a divorce the first time, she could wind up there again. I can understand not wanting to face all the pain necessary to write all that the Church asks us to reflect on and write about, after all, it was difficult for me to do it as well, but I did it while the marriage was still fresh in my mind, and I used it as part of the healing process, which she has not and will not ever get the benefit of. I could never date her again, and I resolved to never date anyone that does not have an annulment already and is not available for sacramental marriage in the RCC.

What I have come to realize is that some people do not care about their Catholicity. Being Catholic, attending mass, receiving the sacraments are not important to them, and therefore, moving through life without an annulment is not any more necessary to them than receiving the sacraments. These are the people who reason that they are a good person, they don't hurt people or break the commandments (in their mind), so they believe that they are going to heaven the way they are living. Jesus said, unless you eat my flesh you have no life in you. Now, you can live your whole life alone in a chaste way and never get an annulment, and still go to heaven. But if you ever expect to get married in the church, or to marry a good Catholic in the church, then you must get an annulment. If you are here on this site looking for a good Catholic to marry you or date you and your previous marriage was not annulled, then I consider you to still be married in the eyes of the Church, and therefore in the eyes of God (what you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven).

My searches no longer include "Divorced" because of my experience with this local person. For the reasons I have stated, many of us have come to CM to find someone who truly wants to live their Catholic faith and wants to help each other get to Heaven as devout Roman Catholics. We have tried dating people we know, and they are not always the best examples of Catholics or fall short of the basic requirement of being available for sacramental marriage. The sad part is that once you get past that part, the basic requirement, there are still all the other factors that either make you attracted to someone or not. It is difficult to be in our situation because we have so many things that need to line up in order for it to work. It is like finding the needle in the haystack only to discover that you have still not found the right needle; try another hay stack. If you find that special person, you are truly blessed.
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I agree with you about everything except that if a person doesn't wish to speak to the ex after 20 years it makes them "immature"...you have no idea what might have happened in that marriage...she could have been beaten and raped for all you know. It could cause her to have post tramautic stress or to be manipulated back into feeling sorry for him (a technique abusers use) or just anything...I don't know what her circumstances are but I know there can be plenty and would not judge her on this. Forgiveness has nothing to do with communicating either...one you have to do eventually, the other you don't.

Sep 14th 2012 new
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: I agree with you about everything except that if a person doesn't wish to speak to the ex afte...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:




I agree with you about everything except that if a person doesn't wish to speak to the ex after 20 years it makes them "immature"...you have no idea what might have happened in that marriage...she could have been beaten and raped for all you know. It could cause her to have post tramautic stress or to be manipulated back into feeling sorry for him (a technique abusers use) or just anything...I don't know what her circumstances are but I know there can be plenty and would not judge her on this. Forgiveness has nothing to do with communicating either...one you have to do eventually, the other you don't.

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Beaten and raped? Ha! It is nothing like that, and yes I do know because we had these discussions. It is something else. I heard her say more than once that her ex-husband's wife is living her life. He is remarried (without annulment, and he obviously doesn't care), he makes a lot of money (he has a new house in Panama and a house in Destin), and she is simply envious. They talk all the time about other things, but is not willing to rock the boat and cause a rift between her and her son over this. I will use Church language here. Her relationship with her ex is disordered because she will not confront him on this matter either to educate or even simply discuss it, but will discuss other things of much lesser importance with him. She was never abused. All of that is just supposition on your part.

I also saw that I wasn't going to allow her 21-year old son to dictate the terms of my own life, as would have been the case, as I could see that she was doing in her own life. It is easier simply not to get involved with people who are not eligible for sacramental marriage to avoid the pain that it causes.
Sep 14th 2012 new
I am currently in process of anullment and honestly when I first joined CM, I didn't fully understand the churches teachings in regards to annullment before dating. After reading the threads on here and really becoming more educated as to the position of the church, I began the annullment process. I have had a serious relationship while in process of annullment, and it really opened my eyes as to WHY wait. It was a difficult lesson, but it was what finally opened me to accepting and carrying out Gods will. I grew a lot, both spiritually and personally, from this experience, and I feel so much peace, as I feel really cleansed and ready for Gods plan as he sees fit for me.
Sep 14th 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: My parish priest said one time during a talk about annulments, that divorce is one of the main rea...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:

My parish priest said one time during a talk about annulments, that divorce is one of the main reasons that people fall away from the church.. At least I was lucky in that I knew from the beginning that I had excellent grounds and I knew what the 'rules' were re: my children's status etc.. Even though it took me 21 years to get the annulment.. I think that one thing people fail to realize is that the longer you wait the harder it is to find witnesses that remember the details of your courtship.. That was the main challenge in my annulment.. My witnesses were weak.. So I had to get a 4th witness, a family member that gave a profound testimony that brought me to tears when I read it.

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Think about a marriage ended after 35 years by an order of separation and converted to Divorce 3 years later where the Church wouldn't do anything BECAUSE it wasn't a DIVORCE. Then the representation of the Tribunal that just go along with us and you'll get the Decree of Nullity from us. Sheesh! I called them (letter to Presiding Judge calling them on their misrepresentation tantamount to FRAUD) - Silence for 3 months then I get this notice that it's going to Judgment. Based on the Presiding Judge's telling me months before that I had no proof but make something up, He already had made up his mind and I wasn't going to get the annulment. Sheesh. In the meantime my lay advocate at the Rarish dumped me. I had no one and no money to hire a firm of canon lawyers to represent me in the Tribunal. I call the Tribunal. Who calls me back? One of the Tribunal judges - A Dominican Nun who IS a Canon Lawyer, a Tribunal judge and Tribunal auditor. She informs me that SHE is now my advocate, that the presiding judge (the one I called on the carpet) recused himself from my case and GUESS WHO took his place as presiding judge on my case - the Archdiocese Judical Vicar - the guy who is advising Sartain on controlling the Nuns here in the U.S. and who is fight the Gay Marriage law on the ballot. I must have REALLY touch a nerve up there. Now a NOBODY has got a really canon lawyer and the head legal guy for the Archdiocese handling his case. They are either going to "DO" me (deny the annulment) or "GRANT" the annulment - so as an academic exercise can what they do REALLY be trusted? Lucky for me, I was thinking and acting and got my military records which REFLECT my grave lack of Judgment (Canon 1095.2) during the same period of time as my wedding - The conclusion of the military as to my abilities to make decsretionary judgments - I was NOT capable of being EVEN a PRIVATE! Never thought I would ever want to see those records again. Still haven't (lack of funds to travel to Seattle) met with my Canon Lawyer - but soon God Willing.

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