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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Brenda-74660 said: 24 years ago when I was expecting my son my first Doctor visit was in August, Andrew was bor...
(Quote) Brenda-74660 said:

24 years ago when I was expecting my son my first Doctor visit was in August, Andrew was born in November. Because I was a single Mom to Be who had just gotten divorced the Doctor I saw felt it was necessary to 'educate' me on my options. Mind you I was at a facility that did not offer abortions and or advocate them. Had I been the person then that I am now I would have reported that Doctor to someone there then. Because I have since found out he was fired because of statements like that he made to patients. If we just sit and do nothing we might as well give up....I pray, I earnestly pray that people wake up. Do you really want a Doctor telling your daughter what her options are even if she never asked to have them explained?
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Sadly, physicians have been sued for "wrongful birth" for not providing abortion as an option when it was determined an unborn child had some serious medical condition (e.g., Down's syndrome).

Physicians, especially those who work for corporate entities such as HMOs or who are treating patients in a hospital, have patient care guidelines they are expected to follow (and document that they have been completed in the patient's medical record). The guidelines include things such as when a pregnancy test must be performed, the sexual activity screening questions someone mentioned earlier, etc. Some of these are CYA measures that come about because of lawsuits such as those I mentioned above; some are standards of practice determined by groups such as the American College of Physicians, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, etc. -- some of which are the result more of social pressure than sound medicine. If the physicians don't document having done these things and the chart is audited, they will get dinged for it. (As used here, 'physician' includes mid-level clinicians (nurse practitioners and physician assistants.))

 

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Oct 12th 2012 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Sadly, physicians have been sued for "wrongful birth" for not providi...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



Sadly, physicians have been sued for "wrongful birth" for not providing abortion as an option when it was determined an unborn child had some serious medical condition (e.g., Down's syndrome).



Physicians, especially those who work for corporate entities such as HMOs or who are treating patients in a hospital, have patient care guidelines they are expected to follow (and document that they have been completed in the patient's medical record). The guidelines include things such as when a pregnancy test must be performed, the sexual activity screening questions someone mentioned earlier, etc. Some of these are CYA measures that come about because of lawsuits such as those I mentioned above; some are standards of practice determined by groups such as the American College of Physicians, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, etc. -- some of which are the result more of social pressure than sound medicine. If the physicians don't document having done these things and the chart is audited, they will get dinged for it. (As used here, 'physician' includes mid-level clinicians (nurse practitioners and physician assistants.))



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those standards of care make me sad...
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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I think it should be mandatory reading in every high schoo...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:



Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I think it should be mandatory reading in every high school in the land.

I can safely say it was the most popular book at Naval Hospital San Diego when I was in training. It is more valid now than ever.

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Are you seriously proposing that an allegory based on a philosophy espoused to the basic precepts of selfishness and atheism be taught to children as prophecy?

www.youtube.com

en.wikipedia.org

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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Clarence-698070 said: (Quote) Gerald-283546 said:Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I think it sh...
(Quote) Clarence-698070 said:

Quote:
Gerald-283546 said:

Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I think it should be mandatory reading in every high school in the land.

I can safely say it was the most popular book at Naval Hospital San Diego when I was in training. It is more valid now than ever.


Are you seriously proposing that an allegory based on a philosophy espoused to the basic precepts of selfishness and atheism be taught to children as prophecy?

www.youtube.com

en.wikipedia.org

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Whether the work is prophetic or not is determined by how well it predicts the future condition, not the objective merits of the philosophy it espouses. Both selfishness and atheism, or at least belief in false religions, have been increasing for decades, so I have no reason to doubt the book could well be prophetic. Not having read it myself, I can't say for sure.

Should it be mandatory reading for high school students? That depends on how it is presented. If it's done in conjunction with analysis that exposes the flaws of the philosophy and demonstrates the correlation to society and the problems we are now experiencing, then it may be a good idea.

But I suspect that would not happen in most cases.

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Oct 12th 2012 new

The book is an allegory, not prophetic. It was written to support Ayn Rand's philosophical reasoning known as "objectivism" (hence the links i provided).

Some Ayn Rand quotes from the interview I linked to:

"I am primarily the creator of a new court of morality which has so far been believed impossible. Namely, a morality not based on... faith..."

"[man's] highest moral purpose is the achievement of his own happiness."

"I'm challenging the moral code of altruism. The precept that man's moral duty is to live for others."

All withing the first 5 minutes of the interview!

What I don't understand is why Gerald would support the teachings of an openly Atheistic philosophical allegory as truth.

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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Clarence-698070 said: The book is an allegory, not prophetic. It was written to support Ayn Rand's philosophical...
(Quote) Clarence-698070 said:

The book is an allegory, not prophetic. It was written to support Ayn Rand's philosophical reasoning known as "objectivism" (hence the links i provided).

Some Ayn Rand quotes from the interview I linked to:

"I am primarily the creator of a new court of morality which has so far been believed impossible. Namely, a morality not based on... faith..."

"[man's] highest moral purpose is the achievement of his own happiness."

"I'm challenging the moral code of altruism. The precept that man's moral duty is to live for others."

All withing the first 5 minutes of the interview!

What I don't understand is why Gerald would support the teachings of an openly Atheistic philosophical allegory as truth.

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I can't speak for Gerald, but the way I interpreted his comment (again, this is without having read the book, so I may be way off base) is that the book presentsd a certain philosophy as being good in some way. This philosophy since been adopted to some degree by modern society, which has led to various bad results. The purpose of reading the book is not to teach the philosophy, but rather to demonstrate that it is in error. Unfortunately, I think the former outcome is more likely than the latter.

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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Clarence-698070 said: (Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I thi...
(Quote) Clarence-698070 said:

Quote:
Gerald-283546 said:



Atlas Shrugged was prophetic. I think it should be mandatory reading in every high school in the land.

I can safely say it was the most popular book at Naval Hospital San Diego when I was in training. It is more valid now than ever.


Are you seriously proposing that an allegory based on a philosophy espoused to the basic precepts of selfishness and atheism be taught to children as prophecy?

www.youtube.com

en.wikipedia.org

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Definitely!

Atlas Shrugged's basic thesis is that there are only a few people who produce the creativity, productivity, jobs, energy and drive that moves a society forward. Most everyone else is either just getting by or sucking our of the trough. Modern society, instead of extolling and rewarding these creators, vilifies and punishes them, which is a form of self abuse, harming the society itself because it is harming the few who really keep it going. In Atlas Shrugged, one of the most productive men decides to withdraw from the society completely, and leave them to their fate. He withdraws to Colorado and pretty soon the society is in trouble. More creators like him joing him in withdrawing, and pretty soon the freeloaders, loafers, mediocre wastels are really hurting because there is no one to support them. Eventually the entire society is on the brink of failure.

The point is that in any organization, and society as a whole, there are usually just a small percentage who are the movers and shakers. The others envy and hate them BUT they absolutely could not exist without them. My surgery mentor used to say the hospital was just like that. There were a few power plants producing all the energy and everyone else just wanted to plug their cords into the socket!

It is a profound insight and prophetic because it predicts the predicament we find ourselves in now. Although we are not as bad off as the society in Atlas Shrugged, we could easily get there. The paradox of pea brains like the Democrats attacking the very people who make jobs, produce things, create wealth is exactly parallel to Rand's society in Atlas. That is why the Dems have produced no improvement in jobs or the economy. You can't do it by attacking the very people responsible for it all. That was Ayn Rand's point. It is a very valid point and appropos to today and to the election.

Of course, a Christian would not quit and totally withdraw as John Galt does, but the point of the novel is: what would happen if he did? Chaos is the answer. It is a lesson every citizen should learn early in the game.

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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Feeling mischievous today, Cathy? This ought to be good... I've already de...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Feeling mischievous today, Cathy?

This ought to be good...

I've already detailed elsewhere why I won't vote for Romney. I guess this is as good of place as any to list why I wouldn't, in a million years, vote for Obama either.

- Spreading abortion overseas

- Obamacare, which will contribute the the continued rise in healthcare costs and the decrease in quality

- Libya

- Drone war and presidential kill list

- Targetting funerals for drone strikes: www.guardian.co.uk

- War on whistle-blowers

- War on transparency

- War on due process (GITMO)

So many other reasons....

I find it sort of striking that so many on the left continue to vehemently defend the man. On foreign policy matters and civil liberties, he has actually managed to out-Bush G.W..
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Per discussion on Relevant Radio:

An analysis of the Democratic platform indicates support of a policies that are intrinsically evil, namely abortion.

The same analyst could not find such intrinsic evils being promulgated in the Republican platform.

As Catholics, we have an obligation to avoid promoting intrinsic evil, or as one bishop stated, "we are placing our salvation in jeapordy."

'Nuf said.

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Oct 12th 2012 new
(Quote) Clarence-698070 said: The book is an allegory, not prophetic. It was written to support Ayn Rand's philosophical reasoning kno...
(Quote) Clarence-698070 said:

The book is an allegory, not prophetic. It was written to support Ayn Rand's philosophical reasoning known as "objectivism" (hence the links i provided).





Some Ayn Rand quotes from the interview I linked to:



"I am primarily the creator of a new court of morality which has so far been believed impossible. Namely, a morality not based on... faith..."



"[man's] highest moral purpose is the achievement of his own happiness."



"I'm challenging the moral code of altruism. The precept that man's moral duty is to live for others."



All withing the first 5 minutes of the interview!





What I don't understand is why Gerald would support the teachings of an openly Atheistic philosophical allegory as truth.



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The only real valuable thing that Ayn Rand espoused was her economic views, as well as certain portions of per political philosophy. Beyond that, she was pretty coo-coo for cocoa puffs. Fortunately, Atlas Shrugged advanced her economic views more than the rest. Sure, some of the Objectivist nuttiness sneaks into the book as well, but it's not an overbearing theme.

Younger, vulnerable minds might not be able to distinguish the good from the bad, which is why I probably wouldn't advocate for high-schoolers to read it...not to mention some of the sexual content in the book.
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Oct 12th 2012 new

Unless something major happens to change my mind, I too, will not be voting.

For everyone who says with conviction, "This is what Romney supports", take a step back and look at his history. It is necessary, or felt to be necessary, to change your views from time to time when running for an elected office. However, the speed and intensity that Romney has put towards his changes in view have been flabbergasting over the last year. Some of you may be right on some of his views, but with what we've seen from the man, I can't imagine any of us can say with certainty what he will or will not support if he becomes President.

Obama is a lost cause in terms of arguing against, his track record, his debate performance, there seems to be a certain group of people in terms of mindset who he is guaranteed to get, but the rest are either up for grabs, or completely against his immoral stances.

I WANT to vote, I WANT a candidate worthy of voting for, but our democratic system that so many in the world want to have, is deeply flawed. The extremely well off pour money into the coffers of every politician who is running for a position that might help or hurt them, the rest of us are left sitting on the sidelines wondering why the candidates give us lip service but then turn around and make decisions that support those who put them in a position to be elected.

It is all rather ridiculous, and turns into one big argument of shades of grey, with points, defenses, being mustered from a tiny portion of the differences. Things that we dont even have a written guarantee on. I know the church has made a huge deal about the birth control issue, but I think that taking that to the extreme of religious persecution down the road is a bit heavy handed.

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