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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: If you are alluding to members of the clergy who failed to properly form and/or vet candi...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

If you are alluding to members of the clergy who failed to properly form and/or vet candidates for marriage (or the faithful in general), there is a great deal of potential for culpability there as well. as there is for those responsible for their formation, etc. But this is another discussion entirely.

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Jerry, since you seem to be quite knowlegable about annullments, I have a question. Would a divorced Hindu (who believes in God) wanting to marry a Catholic need an annullment in the Catholic Church? I'm not sure if the person was married in a civil ceremony or in a Hindu ceremony. My guess would be that if he was married in a civil ceremony, the answer would be no. And, I would also think the answer would be no if he was married in a Hindu ceremony (since it's not a Christian religion), but I'm not sure about this. Thanks!

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Jerry, since you seem to be quite knowlegable about annullments, I have a question...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Jerry, since you seem to be quite knowlegable about annullments, I have a question. Would a divorced Hindu (who believes in God) wanting to marry a Catholic need an annullment in the Catholic Church? I'm not sure if the person was married in a civil ceremony or in a Hindu ceremony. My guess would be that if he was married in a civil ceremony, the answer would be no. And, I would also think the answer would be no if he was married in a Hindu ceremony (since it's not a Christian religion), but I'm not sure about this. Thanks!

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The short answer is Yes, an annulment from a Catholic marriage tribunal is required.

Anyone who has been married previously and desires to marry in the Catholic Church must receive an annulment unless their previous spouse is deceased, ewgardless of their religious affiliation then or now and the nature of the marriage ceremony. If one spouse in the previous marriage was Catholic and the marriage was outside the Church without dispensation they may be able to go through the lack of form process, which is usually very short; if both spouses were non-Catholic the requirement for canonical form does not apply and they will have to go through the full annulment process.

The reason for this is that marriage between any man and woman may be valid as long as there are no impediments and no defect of consent. Sometimes there is confusion between sacramental and valid marriages:

(a) Only marriages between two baptized Christians are sacramental.

(b) All sacramental marriages are valid.

(c) Marriages where one spouse is not a baptized Christian may be valid but are never sacramental. If the unbaptized spouse is later baptized and the marriage is valid it will at that point become sacramental.

[Here baptism refers only to Trinitarian baptisms with water.]

 

I hope this helps.

 

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The short answer is Yes, an annulment from a Catholic marriage tribunal is required. ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The short answer is Yes, an annulment from a Catholic marriage tribunal is required.

Anyone who has been married previously and desires to marry in the Catholic Church must receive an annulment unless their previous spouse is deceased, ewgardless of their religious affiliation then or now and the nature of the marriage ceremony. If one spouse in the previous marriage was Catholic and the marriage was outside the Church without dispensation they may be able to go through the lack of form process, which is usually very short; if both spouses were non-Catholic the requirement for canonical form does not apply and they will have to go through the full annulment process.

The reason for this is that marriage between any man and woman may be valid as long as there are no impediments and no defect of consent. Sometimes there is confusion between sacramental and valid marriages:

(a) Only marriages between two baptized Christians are sacramental.

(b) All sacramental marriages are valid.

(c) Marriages where one spouse is not a baptized Christian may be valid but are never sacramental. If the unbaptized spouse is later baptized and the marriage is valid it will at that point become sacramental.

[Here baptism refers only to Trinitarian baptisms with water.]

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I'm still confused. I thought if people were married in a civil marriage, an annullment was not required ( or just an annulment of form). So,let's say if 2 Hindus or 2 Jewish people are married in a civil marriage, is an annullment required (ie., no Christians involved)? Or if 2 Hindus got married in a Hindu ceremony or 2 Jewish people got married in a Jewish ceremony (again, no Christians involved), is an annullment required? Thanks!

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: I'm still confused. I thought if people were married in a civil marriage, an annullment...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:


I'm still confused. I thought if people were married in a civil marriage, an annullment was not required ( or just an annulment of form). So,let's say if 2 Hindus or 2 Jewish people are married in a civil marriage, is an annullment required (ie., no Christians involved)? Or if 2 Hindus got married in a Hindu ceremony or 2 Jewish people got married in a Jewish ceremony (again, no Christians involved), is an annullment required? Thanks!

--hide--

Only if at least one spouse was Catholic and there was no dispensation from canonical form. The reason for this is that canon law, and hence the requirement for canonical form, applies only to Catholics. Civil marriages may well be valid for two non-Catholics, or even for a Catholic if they had the proper dispensation. If the marriage was potentially valid, the annulment process is needed to determine whether it was.

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:I'm still confused. I thought if people were married in a civil marriage, an annullment was...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

I'm still confused. I thought if people were married in a civil marriage, an annullment was not required ( or just an annulment of form). So,let's say if 2 Hindus or 2 Jewish people are married in a civil marriage, is an annullment required (ie., no Christians involved)? Or if 2 Hindus got married in a Hindu ceremony or 2 Jewish people got married in a Jewish ceremony (again, no Christians involved), is an annullment required? Thanks!

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I'm apologize for neglecting to answer the specific questions. In each of the 4 cases given a full annulment process is required if one person subsequently wished to marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church unless the other spouse is now deceased.

 

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: I'm apologize for neglecting to answer the specific questions. In each of the 4 cases...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

I'm apologize for neglecting to answer the specific questions. In each of the 4 cases given a full annulment process is required unless the other spouse is now deceased.

--hide--


Thanks, Jerry. I think I now understand the process and reasoning involved.

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Thanks, Jerry. I think I now understand the process and reasoning involved.
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Thanks, Jerry. I think I now understand the process and reasoning involved.

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You're welcome. It's certainly not intuitive until you understand that the nature of marriage is rooted in natural law, not the Catholic Chrch, and thus may be valid without any involvement of the Church.

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The premise is that an annulment was granted, thus there was no valid marriage. There may...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The premise is that an annulment was granted, thus there was no valid marriage. There may well have been love and intimacy, but neither are unique to the marital state. To refer so such as "marital love" is misleading, if not disingenuous.

To be clear, as long as both parties are unaware the marriage is invalid there is no sin because sin must be a willful act -- no knowledge, no willful offense to God, no sin.

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Wow. You're so busy announcing who's going to hell. Why not speak to us of the love of God?

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The premise is that an annulment was granted, ...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

The premise is that an annulment was granted, thus there was no valid marriage. There may well have been love and intimacy, but neither are unique to the marital state. To refer so such as "marital love" is misleading, if not disingenuous.

To be clear, as long as both parties are unaware the marriage is invalid there is no sin because sin must be a willful act -- no knowledge, no willful offense to God, no sin.



Wow. You're so busy announcing who's going to hell. Why not speak to us of the love of God?

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Please quote exactly where I mentioned hell, or any other form of punishment, much less claimed that anyone would suffer same.

If you disagree with the information I've provided, address the facts -- don't make up straw men trying to get people riled up about something that was never said.

 

Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: If you are alluding to members of the clergy who failed to properly form and/or vet candi...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

If you are alluding to members of the clergy who failed to properly form and/or vet candidates for marriage (or the faithful in general), there is a great deal of potential for culpability there as well. as there is for those responsible for their formation, etc. But this is another discussion entirely.

--hide--

Jerry, Seriously, IS IT REALLY?

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