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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: (Quote) Shannan-733493 said: With all due respect, Elizabeth, I disagree. I resp...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Quote:
Shannan-733493 said: With all due respect, Elizabeth, I disagree. I respect and applaud the fervency of your beliefs, but believe that the political reality is much more complex. I don't believe that voting for one side means being on the side of good, and voting for the other side being on the side of evil.

And for the record, I do not disagree with the church's position on abortion. But if Mitt Romney is sworn in as president in January 2013, abortion will not end overnight. So it is just not true that the lives of millions of unborn children hinges on voting against Obama. Romney is someone who has changed his political views so many times, it is impossible to know what he really believes or would do as president. But let's assume that he will try to appoint Supreme Court justices that would overturn Roe v. Wade. He may or may not get to appoint Supreme Court justices, depending on deaths and retirements of the sitting justices If he does, the people he appoints may or may not vote to overturn Roe versus Wade, no matter what Romney believed when he appointed them. If Roe vs. Wade gets overturned, the question of the legality of abortion would be left up to individual states. Some states would outlaw it, others would not. Women with more resources could travel to the states that allow it, just like before Roe v. Wade. So many abortions would still take place.

Even if EVERY state outlawed abortion, abortions would still take place. Desperate women would turn to back-alley abortionists or attempt do-it-yourself abortions and many would end up dying or infertile as a result. This is what happened before Roe vs. Wade.

Far FEWER abortions would take place if we have a system of affordable health care and so couples who do not follow Catholic teaching (and never will no matter who is elected or whether the HHS mandate is upheld or withdrawn) have access to contraception. I do not want to live in a society where any church would attempt to outlaw contraception for couples who do not share the same views. The church's teaching on contraception is beautiful, but I don't support mandating it on all of society. And if that were to happen, it would surely lead to MORE abortion, which I think most of us would agree would be a terrible thing.

I fundamentally disagree that this election is a simple matter of black and white. And I'm not even touching the social justice, environmental, and the dignity and rights of worker issues that are also at stake in this election.

You may think I am misguided, and feel free to pray for my soul (I need all of the help I can get!). But I hope that we can all be way more civil on these forums in the future, and respect the right of each person to educate himself or herself and vote his or her conscience.




Shannan, If you think you know what you have read, on what the USCCB said about forming a proper conscience, Then I dare you to watch this show from EWTN and if you have the same thought's as you have shown after watching this , then There is no changing your mind.You want to believe what you want to and not even the Pope could change your mind then. This show is what the Catholic Church believes and it is fully explained on forming a conscience. I myself don't think you, Cathy or clarence will even watch it, But you will continue to argue your point anyhow. God bless and help alll of you.

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EXACTLY.

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: EXACTLY.
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

EXACTLY.

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The real shame is they won't watch it ??? Because they don't want to change there minds or really know what the Church teaches. You can always find a nun or priest who thinks this way too.The sin of Pride was the first sin and still is the most popular. We just have to pray for all who feel this way.

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: First off...all the wars combined do not even come close to the babies murdered world-wide added...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

First off...all the wars combined do not even come close to the babies murdered world-wide added up...secondly...how dare you imply democrats are less of war mongrels.....history does NOT support you. Obama just had his own little war in lybia and because of his policies we have four dead embassadors now. Our enemies are no longer scared of us and they definitely do not respect us. And just so you know...I was an INDEPENDENT up until Obama was elected and then I had it with the democrats...everything in their platform is evil and they are now out and out trying to destroy Christianity and babies....especially under this president. If we lose our relgious freedom....what do you think is left?????????

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Statistics?

Cheryl, really....you need to read your through own post...you are probably the most condescending person I have seen on here...really....do you think it is effective? It's not. Your post are down-right hostile....seriously....get some fresh air or something.... duck duck duck
I'm so happy this is cyber space....god forbid, if you don't agree with people on here...we would get lynched!
...off to lock my doors...just in case....

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-695247 said: Statistics? Cheryl, really....you need to read your through own post...you are probab...
(Quote) Laura-695247 said:


Statistics?

Cheryl, really....you need to read your through own post...you are probably the most condescending person I have seen on here...really....do you think it is effective? It's not. Your post are down-right hostile....seriously....get some fresh air or something....
I'm so happy this is cyber space....god forbid, if you don't agree with people on here...we would get lynched!
...off to lock my doors...just in case....

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...oh aside from Thomas! I think you both should hook up!!!

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Oct 15th 2012 new

Excellent work, everyone!

Just a few more posts and we'll hit 200. Patricia-29176 can probably see us in her rear-view mirror. wink

BTW, my estimate of what the voting public thinks are the most important issues in this election:

1) The Economy (including unemployment, inflation, health care reform, Medicare, housing prices)

2) The Economy

3) The Economy

4) The Economy

5) The Economy

6) The Economy

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.

.

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335) The HHS mandate

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.

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520) Same-sex marriage

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Cathy-620979 said: Excellent work, everyone! Just a few more posts and we'll hit 200. Patricia-2...
(Quote) Cathy-620979 said:

Excellent work, everyone!

Just a few more posts and we'll hit 200. Patricia-29176 can probably see us in her rear-view mirror.

BTW, my estimate of what the voting public thinks are the most important issues in this election:

1) The Economy (including unemployment, inflation, health care reform, Medicare, housing prices)

2) The Economy

3) The Economy

4) The Economy

5) The Economy

6) The Economy

.

.

.

.

335) The HHS mandate

.

.

.

.

520) Same-sex marriage

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Yes, you hit on an important reason to vote Obama out. His handling of the economy is beyond horrible. His stimulous plans have not helped the average American, but have went straight to the pockets of big banks and foreign countries. The socalled auto bailout only helped the unions becausr they took the companies away from the investors and gave it to the unions. How did chevrolet survive 100 years without the government should ve looked at. If they cannot compete, they need to restructure or go the way of the Packard

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Ron-481546 said: Yes, you hit on an important reason to vote Obama out. His handling of the ec...
(Quote) Ron-481546 said:


Yes, you hit on an important reason to vote Obama out. His handling of the economy is beyond horrible. His stimulous plans have not helped the average American, but have went straight to the pockets of big banks and foreign countries. The socalled auto bailout only helped the unions becausr they took the companies away from the investors and gave it to the unions. How did chevrolet survive 100 years without the government should ve looked at. If they cannot compete, they need to restructure or go the way of the Packard

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I like how people forget so quickly which president got us into the financial mess....
On the other hand...California is starting to do really well...lots of people getting good jobs out out here. My friends are all doing well.

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-695247 said: I like how people forget so quickly which president got us into the financial mess....On ...
(Quote) Laura-695247 said:


I like how people forget so quickly which president got us into the financial mess....
On the other hand...California is starting to do really well...lots of people getting good jobs out out here. My friends are all doing well.

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Not from what I've heard. The people I know living out there are underwater in their mortgages, unable to retire, wish they lived elsewhere, hate how their taxes keep going up, up, up, and are moving to other states.

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-695247 said: I like how people forget so quickly which president got us into the financial mess....On ...
(Quote) Laura-695247 said:


I like how people forget so quickly which president got us into the financial mess....
On the other hand...California is starting to do really well...lots of people getting good jobs out out here. My friends are all doing well.

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I never said anything about Bush. He was quite liberal in many areas, to the point that Obams continued most of his policies. He did, however, create a lot of extra revenye for the Federal Government by lowering taxes. Yes, LOWERING TAXES. This stimulated the economy at that time where businesses flourished, made more money, hiered more people then paid more taxes. The fall if the economy toward the end if his adminestration is another subject

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Oct 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Cathy-620979 said: Excellent work, everyone! Just a few more posts and we'll hit 200. Patricia-2...
(Quote) Cathy-620979 said:

Excellent work, everyone!

Just a few more posts and we'll hit 200. Patricia-29176 can probably see us in her rear-view mirror.

BTW, my estimate of what the voting public thinks are the most important issues in this election:

1) The Economy (including unemployment, inflation, health care reform, Medicare, housing prices)

2) The Economy

3) The Economy

4) The Economy

5) The Economy

6) The Economy

.

.

.

.

335) The HHS mandate

520) Same-sex marriage

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I agree Cathy. Folks can wring their hands about abortion and the mandate, but people are going to vote the economy.
(But it is sooo much fun disagreeing with the incumbant... whoever he is.)

So, it really comes down to who do people think will have more sucess fixing the economy: the Keynesian Socialist who wants to spend our way out of it with borrowed money while strengthening the government/union sector, or the Freedmanian Capitalist who wants to revitalize the private sector while slowing the rate of increase in spending? And, who has the training, experience and contacts to make their respective plan work? And who will actually do what he says he will on the campaign trail?

What do you think, if I may ask (now that I know you are actually Very Conservative!)? :-) ;-)

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