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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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11/11/2012 new

The homily at this Sunday morning Mass was very interesting and instructive. The visiting priest grew up in the U.S. but has been a missionary priest to the Ukraine (of the former Soviet Union) since the collapse of the Soviet Union. He returns to the U.S. each years to obtain funds (the 2nd collection at Mass) for continuing the seminaries in Ukraine.


I wish that this priest could have given his homily at every Mass in the U.S. before this election. I am certain that many people were thinking about our election while he was describing life in the Ukraine under socialism and then communism. It was not hard to see the comparisons with the choices that we made on November 6th.



Just a few examples from the homily this morning:


> The communists promised to take care of all of the peoples' needs, from cradle to grave. All they wanted in return was your entire work life and your soul.


> The main opposition to the communists was the Eastern Catholic Church. The communist government systematically set about eliminating all traces of religion in the Soviet Union. The Catholic Church was banned, leading the Church to go underground for about 70 years (approximately). The communist government taught people to rely on the state instead of their faith.


> Churches were destroyed or re-purposed for other government uses. I know of one large Catholic church the was converted to a grainery (e.g. filled with wheat or barley) under Soviet rule.


> There was no unemployment, education was free, health care was free, but the communist government decided what your life's work would be and assigned jobs to each person. The choice was not yours to make. The priest discussed this working situation with some of the citizens... They said "We pretended to work all of the time and the government pretended to pay us for our work." The population had some money to spend, but there was hardly anything that they could buy in a store.


> Many priests, sisters and citizens were tortured and killed under the Soviet system. One of the large local university buildings was converted to a KGB headquarters. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the basement of this building was excavated for another project and was found to have hundreds of bodies buried within it.


> One priest ,with which this missionary priest worked, was assigned the night job of stoking the coal-fired boilers to run a factory (as he was no longer allowed his duties as a priest). This turned out to be a good job for the priest. Young men would come to him in the evenings on the job and this priest would instruct them in all of the things that they needed to know in order to become a priest. He would secretly ordain them as priests once he decided that they were fully prepared. This apparently happened with dozens of priests.


> After the Soviet Union collapsed, the strong underground Catholic Church in the Ukraine was able to come into the open and worship freely. The Ukraine was noted as reviving it's Church the most quickly after the collapse, due to it's strong underground church.


> Under communist rule, a bottle (a fifth) of vodka was cheaper than a bottle of selzer water. The communists discovered that if the population was in at stupor much of the time, it was easier to get them to comply and not revolt. Since the collapse, a few priests have set up an alcohol recovery center on an old government installation. The addicts live there and get treatment based on an American AA 12-step program. Alcohol addition is a huge problem in the Ukraine. Because of this, they have a declining population and a declining life expectancy.

------------------------------------


I hope that we don't venture very far down the socialism path before we (as a country) come to our senses. With the developments of the past four years, we have certainly started in that direction.


Just my thoughts.


Ed

LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

It's socialism if a modern-day pirate looks at a public service and figures he could make tons of money by having that service privatized. GW Bush is no conservative. He's just a scion of a corrupt family. The Bushies always have been crooks, going back to Prescott's time at Brown Brothers Harriman and even before that. Our modern-day "conservatives" hate all government and want to turn society even more into a privatized hell for most people and a bonanza for a select few.


(Quote) James-17080 said: Hi William et alia,Yes, okay. I must admit I was a little confused. The problem is...
(Quote) James-17080 said:



Hi William et alia,

Yes, okay. I must admit I was a little confused. The problem is that Steve decided to interject his own opinions into a definition, thus muddying the waters. And linking Obama to fascism is really muddying the waters, a fault which might very well be laid at the feet of Jonah Goldberg.

Several years ago, we had a young firebrand conservative here who just graduated college. He was a doctrinaire conservative, a lover of Bush and the Iraq War, and so on. But he was a liberal in on very peculiar aspect: he was all in favour of student loans. When I asked him about this, he said, "Well, uh, I couldn't have gone to college without them". He was a liberal only when it suited his interest. Why do I bring this up? Because in this case, my young friend was a socialist. The student loan program was administered by the federal government, who distributed the money to the students.

Let's take another example. Water, and the distribution of water. Here in Chicago, water is secured from Lake Michigan and purified, and all of this is done by the city on the cheap. In other places, private firms do this sort of thing, for considerably more money. Why? Private firms have an incentive, (and a legal obligation if the firm is publicly traded) to put profits over services. Clearly letting the state handle the water is a better option. Or what some here might classify as "socialism"

James ☺

--hide--

LOCKED
11/12/2012 new
I urge you to please try and get your facts 'correct'about conservatives. Let the 'Holy Spirit' guide you through this process! God Bless
LOCKED
11/12/2012 new
My previous post was intended to be for Sean
LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: Just a few examples from the homily this morning:
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

Just a few examples from the homily this morning:

> There was no unemployment, education was free, health care was free, but the communist government decided what your life's work would be and assigned jobs to each person. The choice was not yours to make. The priest discussed this working situation with some of the citizens... They said "We pretended to work all of the time and the government pretended to pay us for our work." The population had some money to spend, but there was hardly anything that they could buy in a store.

--hide--



Education is the way they are getting to the kids. In my 21 year old daughters class on sociology the profressor may it all about the election. She asked the class to stand on one side of the room or the other for the following issues:


Would you vote for Obama
Do you believe in marriage between one man an one woman
Do you think a person should have to show ID to vote


My daughter was 1 out of 22 standing up for marriage. In the other categories, she was in a definite minority as well. She was punished by the group she was assigned to. They had to do volunteering as a group regarding the election. The group decided the project and did not tell her about it. After she found out she had to find a different opportunity to volunteer at. Thank God the term is almost up. The class just turned into the professors political views jammed down the throats of the students. I have had more than one child come close to failing a class because they refuse to cave into the "almighty Professors" view points. They have my full support in those situations.

LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

Steve added his opinion after the definition. The definition is italicized, his opinion is not. (He could have made it clearer by adding a break between the two, but that's a different story.)

I don't see the connection between federal loans (for anything) and socialism; your example of the student loans certainly doesn't fit in with any of the definitions of the word that you posted. There are plenty of private institutions that are in the business of lending; government participation in the industry doesn't imply its' control of it. If the person in your example got a better loan from the government than he could from his bank, it doesn't make him a socialist, as much as you might want to pin the word on him. If I choose to mail an important document overnight through the postal service and not FedEx, it doesn't make me a socialist for choosing the postal service. (I'd be surprised if the fellow you are referring to actually let your point go at that.)

The point you make about the water distribution is a better example, although it still doesn't hit it on the head. (It isn't an example of the production and distribution of a good.) The government is providing the service of filtering and distributing the water, much as it provides the services of a police department, a fire department, a military, etc. It's not producing the water itself, though, which is already provided.

I think most of us would agree that these are areas in which the government does a fine job in providing a service, but it doesn't make them examples of socialism.











LOCKED
11/12/2012 new
Awesome! Good for your daughter Marirose!! :-)
LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: The homily at this Sunday morning Mass was very interesting and instructive. The visiting pri...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

The homily at this Sunday morning Mass was very interesting and instructive. The visiting priest grew up in the U.S. but has been a missionary priest to the Ukraine (of the former Soviet Union) since the collapse of the Soviet Union. He returns to the U.S. each years to obtain funds (the 2nd collection at Mass) for continuing the seminaries in Ukraine.


I wish that this priest could have given his homily at every Mass in the U.S. before this election. I am certain that many people were thinking about our election while he was describing life in the Ukraine under socialism and then communism. It was not hard to see the comparisons with the choices that we made on November 6th.



Just a few examples from the homily this morning:


> The communists promised to take care of all of the peoples' needs, from cradle to grave. All they wanted in return was your entire work life and your soul.


> The main opposition to the communists was the Eastern Catholic Church. The communist government systematically set about eliminating all traces of religion in the Soviet Union. The Catholic Church was banned, leading the Church to go underground for about 70 years (approximately). The communist government taught people to rely on the state instead of their faith.


> Churches were destroyed or re-purposed for other government uses. I know of one large Catholic church the was converted to a grainery (e.g. filled with wheat or barley) under Soviet rule.


> There was no unemployment, education was free, health care was free, but the communist government decided what your life's work would be and assigned jobs to each person. The choice was not yours to make. The priest discussed this working situation with some of the citizens... They said "We pretended to work all of the time and the government pretended to pay us for our work." The population had some money to spend, but there was hardly anything that they could buy in a store.


> Many priests, sisters and citizens were tortured and killed under the Soviet system. One of the large local university buildings was converted to a KGB headquarters. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the basement of this building was excavated for another project and was found to have hundreds of bodies buried within it.


> One priest ,with which this missionary priest worked, was assigned the night job of stoking the coal-fired boilers to run a factory (as he was no longer allowed his duties as a priest). This turned out to be a good job for the priest. Young men would come to him in the evenings on the job and this priest would instruct them in all of the things that they needed to know in order to become a priest. He would secretly ordain them as priests once he decided that they were fully prepared. This apparently happened with dozens of priests.


> After the Soviet Union collapsed, the strong underground Catholic Church in the Ukraine was able to come into the open and worship freely. The Ukraine was noted as reviving it's Church the most quickly after the collapse, due to it's strong underground church.


> Under communist rule, a bottle (a fifth) of vodka was cheaper than a bottle of selzer water. The communists discovered that if the population was in at stupor much of the time, it was easier to get them to comply and not revolt. Since the collapse, a few priests have set up an alcohol recovery center on an old government installation. The addicts live there and get treatment based on an American AA 12-step program. Alcohol addition is a huge problem in the Ukraine. Because of this, they have a declining population and a declining life expectancy.

------------------------------------


I hope that we don't venture very far down the socialism path before we (as a country) come to our senses. With the developments of the past four years, we have certainly started in that direction.


Just my thoughts.


Ed

--hide--


Regarding the last point this priest made. It will likely be marijuana that becomes the "drug" of choice allowed by the government (rather than alcohol) as we can already see starting to happen. And, if they get the teenagers/young adults on marijuana regularly, it has been shown in studies to decrease motivation levels so that many of these young adults end up doing just about nothing in their lives (very easy to manage then although the state will also end up supporting them and their resultant issues).

LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

(Quote) Keith-806420 said: I urge you to please try and get your facts 'correct'about conservatives. Let the 'Holy Spir...
(Quote) Keith-806420 said: I urge you to please try and get your facts 'correct'about conservatives. Let the 'Holy Spirit' guide you through this process! God Bless
--hide--



I just don't think that conservatives really exist anymore, at least in the political realm. The old-school conservatives have been overwhelmed by the neocons, who are anything but conservative.

LOCKED
11/12/2012 new

Honestly I'd like to know myself... Okay I am 28, I do live in a blue state and do go to a wicked liberal college, what I don't understand is why most of the freshmen think the distribution of wealth is a great idea, when every history class uses the old axiom "learn from history or you bound to repeat it". How many more examples do we need? History has given us enough...look at Cuba, Look at Russia before the revolution (yes I know they were Communists but the government still controlled everything). Obama didn't win with my vote.

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