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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said: I will always have a place in my heart for organized labor. When unions are gone so is the mid...
(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said:

I will always have a place in my heart for organized labor. When unions are gone so is the middle class. My grandfather was a Longshoreman, my aunt belongs to the UFCW and I was in the Carpenters Union. I proudly display a Union sticker on my union made pickup.

"A strong organized labor movement helps every working American"-- former Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee Al Gore
--hide--

Maybe one of the problems Unions have is that morons like Al Gore talk them up.

11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Gustavo, one of the problems is that organized labor no longer represents many people. Th...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Gustavo, one of the problems is that organized labor no longer represents many people. The only "industry" where unions are growing is Government. But even with those large numbers, labor unions only represent about 11% of workers. And there is a reason for that.

No, not Union busting, but workers realizing that in most cases, Unions no longer really represent them. Instead they represent the Union Leaders who as a group are only interested in themselves and power.

If Unions would clean up their act, maybe the average worker would choose to join. But the way things are now, Unions have lost the heart and loyalty of the working man.

--hide--


If Union busting is not the issue, then why do big corporations like Walmart keep Union busting lawyers on staff?



11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said: I will always have a place in my heart for organized labor. When unions are gone so is the mid...
(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said:

I will always have a place in my heart for organized labor. When unions are gone so is the middle class. My grandfather was a Longshoreman, my aunt belongs to the UFCW and I was in the Carpenters Union. I proudly display a Union sticker on my union made pickup.

"A strong organized labor movement helps every working American"-- former Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee Al Gore
--hide--


yea, a quote from Mr. Tax the air we breathe. What a nut case. Unions has their day but for most part have overstepped their bounds. Their greedy contracts contributed greatly to the problems in the automotive industry. Also, the "boss is the enemy" attitude I witnessed while in the IBEW ws divisive and unproductive.

11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-211696 said: If Union busting is not the issue, then why do big corporations like Walmart keep Union bus...
(Quote) Charles-211696 said:


If Union busting is not the issue, then why do big corporations like Walmart keep Union busting lawyers on staff?

--hide--

The coal mining industry was the most unionized with well paid employees and well pensioned retirees. But that was when John L. Lewis ran things. He saw that his workers were well cared for while realizing that automation was inevitable. So he worked with reality.

Guess what? After Lewis came the "everything belong to the workers and I want power leaders."

The union destroyed itself. So most coal miners are not and do not want to be Union members.

Look at the teamsters. So many crooks ran that one for the longest time. Still a powerful union as Unions go, but a shell of what it used to be. No union busting there. A little too much head busting by the union drove people out.

The Lady Garment Workers Union. Demanded more and more so that it drove those jobs overseas. Where is that union today? Who were its leaders looking out for?

Unions are still very powerful even though they represent so few workers. Because they have the extorted cash with which they line the politicians pockets, especially liberal politicians. So a WalMart which managed to keep itself free of unions so far and does well for its regular employees and continues to try to keep itself Union free. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

And please don't hand me the canard about how horrible WalMart is to its employees. Its employment practises are exactly the same as the rest of them, a heavy reliance on part time help. Its wages are comparable to all the others as is its benefits packages. The difference, they are demonized because they are union free and the rest aren't.

You don't have to shop there, but the public has voted with its pocketbook. Sears used to be the largest retail chain in the world. A lot of bad management has made it something like only tenth largest in the US and even further down the list internationally.

Union members in the US voted with their feet.

Argue that Unions are necessary and I would wholeheartedly agree. But until Unions get back to the their job of truly representing the workers they purport to serve, it just is not going to happen.

11/14/2012 new
(Quote) Charles-211696 said: If Union busting is not the issue, then why do big corporations like Walmart keep Union b...
(Quote) Charles-211696 said:




If Union busting is not the issue, then why do big corporations like Walmart keep Union busting lawyers on staff?





--hide--


I, for one, NEVER shop at Wal-Mart. Wouldn't set foot in there even if they gave away their sweatshop-made goods.
11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The coal mining industry was the most unionized with well paid employees and well pension...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The coal mining industry was the most unionized with well paid employees and well pensioned retirees. But that was when John L. Lewis ran things. He saw that his workers were well cared for while realizing that automation was inevitable. So he worked with reality.

Guess what? After Lewis came the "everything belong to the workers and I want power leaders."

The union destroyed itself. So most coal miners are not and do not want to be Union members.

Look at the teamsters. So many crooks ran that one for the longest time. Still a powerful union as Unions go, but a shell of what it used to be. No union busting there. A little too much head busting by the union drove people out.

The Lady Garment Workers Union. Demanded more and more so that it drove those jobs overseas. Where is that union today? Who were its leaders looking out for?

Unions are still very powerful even though they represent so few workers. Because they have the extorted cash with which they line the politicians pockets, especially liberal politicians. So a WalMart which managed to keep itself free of unions so far and does well for its regular employees and continues to try to keep itself Union free. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

And please don't hand me the canard about how horrible WalMart is to its employees. Its employment practises are exactly the same as the rest of them, a heavy reliance on part time help. Its wages are comparable to all the others as is its benefits packages. The difference, they are demonized because they are union free and the rest aren't.

You don't have to shop there, but the public has voted with its pocketbook. Sears used to be the largest retail chain in the world. A lot of bad management has made it something like only tenth largest in the US and even further down the list internationally.

Union members in the US voted with their feet.

Argue that Unions are necessary and I would wholeheartedly agree. But until Unions get back to the their job of truly representing the workers they purport to serve, it just is not going to happen.

--hide--


I agree with you that some unions have been co-opted.


However, that large chain stores purposefully keep most of their employees at part-time is no canard. It is purposeful economic policy.

If you look at things from the perspective of the corporation, keeping the greater majority of your employees as part-timers is cheaper for the overall bottom line of the corporation, in terms of laws that have to be followed if employing people full-time.


Walmart used to have butchers. Honest-to-gosh butchers, where you could have a special cut made for you. Ten butchers in one store wanted to unionize. What did Walmart do? They eliminated the butcher section. At all of their stores. Simply decided they didn't need butchers anymore. Fired all those employees, just because a few employess were talking about unionizing.


I read an article within the past few days where a Walmart worker said they were only scheduled for 28 hours every week, at a rate of $8.90/hr. Do the math. This works out to $249.20/week, before taxes. For a single person with no children, those wages put them almost squarely on top of the poverty line. If you have a child, you are living below the poverty line. And if that person has to work a second job--which many part-timers have to do--just to make ends meet, then you get a second shock, because more taxes are taken out of your paycheck from your second job, just because you're working two jobs.


So, a person is a part-time worker. But, they're probably working upwards of 50-60 hours/week, because they have to work two (or more) jobs, just to get by. And this means they don't get to spend much time with their children. Why? Because it's better for the corporation's bottom line.


Do unions have PACs. Absolutely. But corporations and industries have PACs, too, and they line their respective politicians' pockets as equally, if not better. So don't go blaming one side without taking into account the entire picture. Remember, it was the Roberts' court that upheld Citizens United: en.wikipedia.org

In the end, though, I find it curious that you ultimately support unions.



11/14/2012 new
(Quote) Ron-481546 said: yea, a quote from Mr. Tax the air we breathe. What a nut case. Unions has their day but for m...
(Quote) Ron-481546 said:




yea, a quote from Mr. Tax the air we breathe. What a nut case. Unions has their day but for most part have overstepped their bounds. Their greedy contracts contributed greatly to the problems in the automotive industry. Also, the "boss is the enemy" attitude I witnessed while in the IBEW ws divisive and unproductive.

--hide--


Someone earning $30/hr plus benefits didn't drive GM to financial ruin. CEOs making millions with an expense account, poor engineering, awful design and a populace which would rather purchase imports bankrupted GM.
11/14/2012 new

(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said: Someone earning $30/hr plus benefits didn't drive GM to financial ruin. CEOs making millio...
(Quote) Gustavo-764558 said:

Someone earning $30/hr plus benefits didn't drive GM to financial ruin. CEOs making millions with an expense account, poor engineering, awful design and a populace which would rather purchase imports bankrupted GM.
--hide--


You're absolutely right, Gustavo! The unions haven't driven GM to financial ruin, this current administration has driven it to complete ruin.


GM's takeover

Fact: As of today, GM owes the taxpayers over $42 billion dollars


Fact:
120,000 non-union GM workers fired and pensions lost (the bailout only subsidized union pensions)


Fact:
2,200 privately-owned non-union dealerships had their GM contracts rescinded and were forced out of business


Fact: The Chevy Volt retailed for around $40K yet cost over $110K to build per car (and was arranged so that the per-car loss would be subsidized through additional taxpayer funds, not GM company funds!)


Fact: GM stock is trading at under $24/share. It would need to reach $63/share to break even on the bailout


Fact: GM is, once again, on the verge of bankruptcy, and will likely need yet another taxpayer bailout... and with this current administration, is all but guaranteed to get it


And you have the audacity to call the CEO's greedy? At least they never stole taxpayer money, or the pensions of their non-union workers.


theheart



11/14/2012 new
The Volt is newer technology. New technology doesn't come cheap.

Dealerships were closed if they were exclusively GM. If they were co-branded they could still sell the other nameplate. ie a Chevrolet and Subaru dealership could still sell Subarus.

Pres. Obama is right, "Osama is dead, GM is alive"

And yes, CEOs are still greedy. Making cars in Mexico hasn't lowered the price to consumers but it has lined plenty of corporate pockets.
11/14/2012 new

Last year, I went through the October Surprise and was without power for 7 days. I know how the communities in southern CT, New York City and the buroughs, Long Island and New Jersey. Waiting for power to be restored, trees removed from homes and streets, thankfully we didn't have flooding but it was cold. I don't think we have minded having non-union help turn our lights back on. The people in charge didn't have enough help in the area causing long delays. Once the power comes on there is more work to be done for many will be for the cities & towns to get rid of the debris before the winter weather causing snow & ice blocking roads. Non-union is the word for many of these companies. They come in work 7 days a week and in a matter of no time the debris fields are picked up and the crews leave for another area.


I watched this Hurricane from all directions that day, my heart went out to the people who lost their homes to the fires, to displaced families and the elderly trapped in apartments. What can we do to help? I am hearing they don't want you to come and give of your time and they don't need everything. Here they are filling trailers to send to our neighbors in NY & NJ and only accepting certain items.

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