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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Reduction (abortion)

11/14/2012 new

I wrote a whole spiel on this last night on my iphone but lost it. Not such a bad thing because I can be more concise. I haven't ever been able to have children without "medical" help. The only time that I know I was pregnant naturally, I miscarried at 11 weeks. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a biologist and the cause of my infertility was manmade in my mind. For my 1st successful pregnancy I used the 1st drug of choice. For the 2nd, I tried unsuccessfully for 5 years and resorted to IVF (a sin I know-except it was OK'd for my sister-confusing). I did extensive research and had many consultants (the 1st IVF didn't work so I told the doctor that if he didn't do what I wanted, I'd go somewhere else). The horror of it was that I became pregnant with triplets. If I was going to carry them fullterm (they all would've died otherwise), the doctors told me (and I still believe them) that I couldn't have 3 (2 at the most) without endangering my life and all of the babies' lives certainly. I did not think I'd be that successful but I was wrong. I ended up having a reduction (a "nicer" way of saying abortion-it's all the same) and had twins who I love fiercely, as well as my older son) but I also wonder about the child I killed.


My questions are how do I resolve this within myself and with the Church? And why or why not is it OK to have any manmade medical intervention at all? Personally, I think God gave us the intelligence to solve medical problems. I also think pro-abortionists will have more and more ethical problems as science advances. I'm incredibly conflicted. I'd appreciate any insights.

11/14/2012 new

There is significant doctrine against assisted reproduction of any kind. There are people here who are infinitely more knowledgeable than I regarding those issues. I can say that I left the Catholic church for over ten years regarding these issues. I used to agree with you about the science being available. I am not against it, but I never could follow through for myself. It crosses more lines than I was willing to cross.

As for the 'reduction' issue, taking care of yourself is first priority. If it was me, I would first go to confession and seek spiritual guidance towards grieving the lost child. There is a retreat called 'Rachel's Vineyard' that you might also look into for yourself. I am familiar with the program, and it has helped many people. You will be in my prayers. heart

11/14/2012 new

Dear Julie,


We must avoid at all costs the impulse to play God , for only He is the author of life and only He predetermines who lives and who dies.


Having said that , I would encourage you to make a good confession , rely on God's mercy for healing and to name the 3rd child of your triplets , and honor the memory of one of your children that went to be with Jesus , very early in life .

Also volunteering at a pregnancy center or spending a day infront of an abortion mill , with a sign defending life would help in your ability to do what you can at this point to honor the life of the 3rd child of your triplets


God's mercy , blessings and guidance be with you ,


Casey

11/14/2012 new
You know. The more I've learned the more I believe God is real Nothing else makes sense. I too left the Church after I was confirmed when I was twelve. I didn't set foot in a church (other for other peoples' weddings) until I was married. I didn't go again until I had my oldest son and that was a Lutheran church. I didn't want him to grow up without hope (what else can you call agnosticism or atheism).

I preferred the traditional service (there's something special and powerful about everyone saying the same prayer at the same time). The pastor, in his verve for new followers (he tried to save new people) neglected to help nourish those of us who were already members. The infighting between the "progressive" members (who greatly outnumbered traditionlists) and traditionalists became constant. They believed that the traditionalists were trying to get them to worship in the same way. Not the case at all but traditionalists WERE being marginalized. My ex and I had 2 infants and a small boy. There was no way we could get to church unless we woke at 5 am.

The Catholic Church is constant and doesn't have that kind of petty political infighting.. So we went there instead. I kept going for a time after my ex left. He and his new wife went and received communion This presented a terrible example to my older son (who knew that was wrong). Anyhow, I stopped going again and have started again. I was spiritually bankrupt and God, Jesus and the Church are constant. I badly needed to be back.

Anyhow, many people, mostly non-Catholics denigrate n the Church's constancy. For me. there's no other way I can spiritually continue after everything. I just need to know how to do it right this time.
11/14/2012 new

Please look into Rachel's Vineyard. They can give you support and guidance..

www.rachelsvineyard.org

11/14/2012 new
Welcome home Julie. God has missed you and so have all your brothers and sisters. Find a good priest and avail yourself of confession. Let the blood of our Blessed Lord wash you clean. Return to Mass and partake of His flesh. Read and learn your faith. Ask the Blessed Mother for help. And keep posting. Lots of great people here that are already praying for you!
11/14/2012 new
A quick thought which makes it worse. It wasn't an impulse. It was very planned out. For years even.

I don't know if it means anything that I wasn't practicing at the time. I know very little about doctrine. I wonder how many Catholics are out there like me.
11/15/2012 new

(Quote) Julie-909449 said: I wrote a whole spiel on this last night on my iphone but lost it. Not such a bad thing because I...
(Quote) Julie-909449 said:

I wrote a whole spiel on this last night on my iphone but lost it. Not such a bad thing because I can be more concise. I haven't ever been able to have children without "medical" help. The only time that I know I was pregnant naturally, I miscarried at 11 weeks. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a biologist and the cause of my infertility was manmade in my mind. For my 1st successful pregnancy I used the 1st drug of choice. For the 2nd, I tried unsuccessfully for 5 years and resorted to IVF (a sin I know-except it was OK'd for my sister-confusing). I did extensive research and had many consultants (the 1st IVF didn't work so I told the doctor that if he didn't do what I wanted, I'd go somewhere else). The horror of it was that I became pregnant with triplets. If I was going to carry them fullterm (they all would've died otherwise), the doctors told me (and I still believe them) that I couldn't have 3 (2 at the most) without endangering my life and all of the babies' lives certainly. I did not think I'd be that successful but I was wrong. I ended up having a reduction (a "nicer" way of saying abortion-it's all the same) and had twins who I love fiercely, as well as my older son) but I also wonder about the child I killed.


My questions are how do I resolve this within myself and with the Church? And why or why not is it OK to have any manmade medical intervention at all? Personally, I think God gave us the intelligence to solve medical problems. I also think pro-abortionists will have more and more ethical problems as science advances. I'm incredibly conflicted. I'd appreciate any insights.

--hide--

Julie,

The most important thing to remember is that God Loves you and your baby.... I had an abortion experience also.... Id like you to know God understands your temptations, and all of our temptations....He knows why you did it and even though it was the wrong thing to do he forgives all of us that repent.... I will tell you my story ... I got married very young ... My husbands mom was extremely liberal.... After my second child she did not want any more grand children... So with my last three children she put an enormous amount of pressure for me not to have any more. She'd call me often telling me I should not have the child in my womb... that it would take away from my other children... With my last one I did not tell her till i was about 6 months pregnant.. She would call me about 3 times a week pressuring me about it... So you see I understand pressure .... I love all my kids the same amount... But my last one My little Mary Rose is the holiest, and a great person.... She wants to do mission work... I often think how much the devil wanted to kill my perfect little girl .... Her Brothers say they would like to meet a girl like their sister and then merry that girl.... My little angel ... and Oh how hard the devil tried to destroy her...That pressure is like living in hell... How it affected me... i might not have failed..... I did not have an abortion... But I know that suffering...

My dear sister there is a community group in the Catholic church called the project Rachel ..... It is for men and Women that have suffered through an abortion... i have a few friends that went to it and it helped them a lot..... There have been miracles that have happened to some that have went there i know of one that actually named her babies and had a vision of them... It was so healing for her.... They even welcome people like me... That never had an abortion but still suffer from what was done to me.... May GBU and your Children....


Here is a web sit for the Rachel society....

www.rachelsvineyard.org


www.noparh.org

11/15/2012 new

(Quote) Julie-909449 said: A quick thought which makes it worse. It wasn't an impulse. It was very planned out. For years even....
(Quote) Julie-909449 said: A quick thought which makes it worse. It wasn't an impulse. It was very planned out. For years even.

I don't know if it means anything that I wasn't practicing at the time. I know very little about doctrine. I wonder how many Catholics are out there like me.
--hide--

There are plent like you ... That is why you must meet them so that together youy can heal..GBU

11/15/2012 new
Hi Julie,

Several others have given you good advice already. I'm going to focus on your questions regarding "why not" IVF and other fertility options.

Dr. Janet E. Smith (www.janetesmith.org is a superb resource. I've listened to her in person, and bought her "Sexual Common Sense" CDs. The 5th one (can be purchased separately as a CD or cheaper yet, mp3 file)is called "05 Reproductive Technologies: Why Not"

She goes through papal documents, catechism, etc, and makes it very easy to follow. She takes some very theologically dense works like JPII's "Love and Responsibility" and breaks it down, and applies it to current technologies.

Bravo for posting honestly, and my prayers are offered for your continued communion with the Church.

Pax et bonum!
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