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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Nov 14th 2012 new

One of my friends sent me the link below. Maybe this will answer the question "Why did America choose Socialism." The Catholic faith has been watered down in many parishes according to the video. Open the link below for further details.


www.churchmilitant.tv

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Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: You brought up this bank business. Perhaps...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:


You brought up this bank business. Perhaps a question to ask ourselves is what would have happened if Treasury hadn't bailed out the banks. It's interesting (if futile) to speculate on the results. It's also getting away from the topic.

James






James, if the Treasury didn't bail out the banks, it would have been the end of the world. These financial institutions had marketed AAA-rated securities around the world; institutions and governments had bought them based on the AAA ratings. It turns out that the rating agencies were rating paper with a much higher rating than the mortgages that made up the product were actually worth, and the chance for default was much higher than the buyers actually believed. Because the US government could not actually admit its oversight of the US financial services sector was managed like one in a banana republic, it had to step in and shift the burden of the payment from the banks (which could not carry it) to the taxpayer.

More here: reporting.sunlightfoundation.com


--hide--



Hi William et alia,

It would have been the end of the world, eh? Here's my problem with that. People here bitch and moan about people who are ill and are on Social Security, people who are on food stamps because they don't make enough money, and forth. And you cry "Socialism!"

On the other hand, we have the banks and Wall Street, who recoil at the very mention of control. Why do you think they put so much money into Scott Brown's campaign, and were so against Elizabeth Warren? Banks and other vermin want to privatise their profits and socialize their losses. And that is socialism. But nobody except me has any problem with that.

James ☺

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Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Florian-626971 said: (Quote) James-17080 said:I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act social...
(Quote) Florian-626971 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:

I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act socialism? Is Social Security Socialism? Is Medicare socialism? Here's a puzzler: Is the Internet, which was developed by DARPA for national security reasons, and not for buying useless junk on EBAY or Internet porn, socialism?

Tax collection is not regarded as stealing because the funds collected by taxation generally serve the public. If there is no taxation, then how do expect things like roads and bridges to be built, infrastructure repair, and police protection to take place? Some wizards here have a peculiar notion that we have a special destiny to protect Israel. Without taxation, there are no funds to help Israel (or anybody else, for that matter).

James ☺


I think of socialism as the philosophy that industries in general should owned and controlled by government. Socialism isn't a term that's best applied to individual government programs. But if you insist, using the criterion of public vs. private goods, I would say that the Morrill Act was not socialism, social security and medicare are socialism, and the internet is not. I can imagine some would see the internet as a public good because it is like infrastructure. The fact that it was developed by DARPA is not problematic, though. Nat'l security is a public good.

--hide--


Yes, national security is a public good. Are the health of the nation's people a public good?

James ☺

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Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: Yes, national security is a public good. Are the health of the nation's people a publi...
(Quote) James-17080 said:



Yes, national security is a public good. Are the health of the nation's people a public good?

James ☺

--hide--

You mean is personal health care a public good? No. Individuals take care of that themselves. Otherwise, the next thing people will say is that nourishment is a public good and that the goverment should buy our food, or we should have food stamps for everyone. That would be ridiculous; people can take care of their own needs in a lot of areas.

The government can take on responsibility of a nation's health in some ways. It can outlaw the sale of products that are hazardous to people's heath. It can take steps to stop a world-wide pandemic from spreading into the country... I would think of that as an extension of goverment's nat'l security responsibilities.

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Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act socialism? Is Social Security Socialism? Is Medica...
(Quote) James-17080 said:



I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act socialism? Is Social Security Socialism? Is Medicare socialism? Here's a puzzler: Is the Internet, which was developed by DARPA for national security reasons, and not for buying useless junk on EBAY or Internet porn, socialism?

Tax collection is not regarded as stealing because the funds collected by taxation generally serve the public. If there is no taxation, then how do expect things like roads and bridges to be built, infrastructure repair, and police protection to take place? Some wizards here have a peculiar notion that we have a special destiny to protect Israel. Without taxation, there are no funds to help Israel (or anybody else, for that matter).

James ☺

--hide--


James, I'll give a shot at answering your questions.

Social Security, medicare, medicaid are all socialism. What do you think is the return on all the social security taxes paid over a lifetime. It's terrible. This government borrows 120 billion dollars a month. Would anyone recommend that a typical family borrow each month just to pay bills. With this current government, that's what a lot of families are doing.

As far as roads and bridges, I pay registration fees, taxes on gas and tires, tolls on roads, sales tax etc. How were roads and bridges and all the other stuff you're talking about happen before 1913.

Why are there so many people that think a bunch of elected and unelected politicians can spend money more wisely than you can. They have demonstrated they can't and only do it for their own personal enrichment. The more you give them the more they want. Taxation generally serves those in power, not the general public. It is a way of controlling the population and keeping most of us serfs.

In addition to personal income taxes, make a list of all the other stuff that you are forced to pay. It is well over 50% of income. How's that working out for everyone?

If all these rules and regulations are so wonderful, why does congress exempt themselves from their own laws.

LOCKED
Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Florian-626971 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Yes, national security is a public goo...
(Quote) Florian-626971 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:



Yes, national security is a public good. Are the health of the nation's people a public good?

James ☺


You mean is personal health care a public good? No. Individuals take care of that themselves. Otherwise, the next thing people will say is that nourishment is a public good and that the goverment should buy our food, or we should have food stamps for everyone. That would be ridiculous; people can take care of their own needs in a lot of areas.

The government can take on responsibility of a nation's health in some ways. It can outlaw the sale of products that are hazardous to people's heath. It can take steps to stop a world-wide pandemic from spreading into the country... I would think of that as an extension of goverment's nat'l security responsibilities.

--hide--


Yes, personal health care is a public good. Are you really suggesting to me that if people can't afford personal health care, they should be left to die? Yes, people take care of their own needs in a lot of areas. I'm not suggesting that those who can fend for themselves should be taken care of by the government. But there are a lot of people who can't, and this is why we have Social Security and Medicare (which you consider "socialism"). Let me ask you this: Do you consider socialism with respect to Medicare and Social Security bad things?

Congrats on getting your Ph.D from a public university. You know, a university which the state pays for most of your education. It looks to me that you're all in favor of some forms of socialism, and not in favor of socialism which doesn't affect you. Now, admittedly, maybe that's not true. But based on my interactions with you, that's what it looks like.

James ☺

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Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Joe-787295 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act so...
(Quote) Joe-787295 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:



I'll try again. Was the Morrill Act socialism? Is Social Security Socialism? Is Medicare socialism? Here's a puzzler: Is the Internet, which was developed by DARPA for national security reasons, and not for buying useless junk on EBAY or Internet porn, socialism?

Tax collection is not regarded as stealing because the funds collected by taxation generally serve the public. If there is no taxation, then how do expect things like roads and bridges to be built, infrastructure repair, and police protection to take place? Some wizards here have a peculiar notion that we have a special destiny to protect Israel. Without taxation, there are no funds to help Israel (or anybody else, for that matter).

James ☺



James, I'll give a shot at answering your questions.

Social Security, medicare, medicaid are all socialism. What do you think is the return on all the social security taxes paid over a lifetime. It's terrible. This government borrows 120 billion dollars a month. Would anyone recommend that a typical family borrow each month just to pay bills. With this current government, that's what a lot of families are doing.

As far as roads and bridges, I pay registration fees, taxes on gas and tires, tolls on roads, sales tax etc. How were roads and bridges and all the other stuff you're talking about happen before 1913.

Why are there so many people that think a bunch of elected and unelected politicians can spend money more wisely than you can. They have demonstrated they can't and only do it for their own personal enrichment. The more you give them the more they want. Taxation generally serves those in power, not the general public. It is a way of controlling the population and keeping most of us serfs.

In addition to personal income taxes, make a list of all the other stuff that you are forced to pay. It is well over 50% of income. How's that working out for everyone?

If all these rules and regulations are so wonderful, why does congress exempt themselves from their own laws.

--hide--


Hi Joe et alia,

Nice to meet you.

So, you're against Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid? Is that what you're telling me, or are you just telling me that those things are examples of Socialism?

James ☺

LOCKED
Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: Hi William et alia,It would have been the end of the world, eh? Here's my ...
(Quote) James-17080 said:




Hi William et alia,

It would have been the end of the world, eh? Here's my problem with that. People here bitch and moan about people who are ill and are on Social Security, people who are on food stamps because they don't make enough money, and forth. And you cry "Socialism!"

On the other hand, we have the banks and Wall Street, who recoil at the very mention of control. Why do you think they put so much money into Scott Brown's campaign, and were so against Elizabeth Warren? Banks and other vermin want to privatise their profits and socialize their losses. And that is socialism. But nobody except me has any problem with that.

James ☺

--hide--



Be careful with your wording, James. I haven't used the word "socialism" on this thread in any other examples than the government intervention in the auto and banking industries. Let's try to avoid emotion here, shall we?

I'm in total agreement with you on the banks. (You may want to look back in the thread and see who it was who gave the lengthy explanations about this financial crisis and who it was who pointed out the obvious: that we did have socialism in the banking industry. Why you would say you were the only one who has a problem with this is beyond me.)

P.S By the way, it would have been the end of the world. These investments have been sold to individual investors, institutions, and governments everywhere. (Yes, they are still out there.) People bought these investments because they believed in the ratings that were put on them and they had this convoluted idea that our government was made up of responsible adults who would never have allowed them to be marketed if they weren't, in fact, properly rated.

I'm certainly not in support of government management of the financial services industry, but my problem is more with the administration that sowed the seeds of this disaster (Bill Clinton) than the subsequent presidents (George Bush and Barack Obama) who had to step in with our money to clean up the mess he left.


(P.S.S. The reason they won't break up the big banks is that socialism thing we've been talking about here. They don't want to be broken up, and they have a government willing to acquiesce.)



Worthwhile reading:

www.bloomberg.com
www.theratingsdebate.com







LOCKED
Nov 15th 2012 new

Our society and culture has worked it way to instant gratification, lack of taking pride in dealing with things difficult or hard work, no 'work ethic' because it takes away from being able to what they want when they without responibilty. When you want to live 'have the birthday cake and eat it too along with claiming every gift is wrong and not enough of them' type attitude, and it becomes more and more widespread. Socialism happens

LOCKED
Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Hi William et alia,It woul...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:




Hi William et alia,

It would have been the end of the world, eh? Here's my problem with that. People here bitch and moan about people who are ill and are on Social Security, people who are on food stamps because they don't make enough money, and forth. And you cry "Socialism!"

On the other hand, we have the banks and Wall Street, who recoil at the very mention of control. Why do you think they put so much money into Scott Brown's campaign, and were so against Elizabeth Warren? Banks and other vermin want to privatise their profits and socialize their losses. And that is socialism. But nobody except me has any problem with that.

James ☺





Be careful with your wording, James. I haven't used the word "socialism" on this thread in any other examples than the government intervention in the auto and banking industries. Let's try to avoid emotion here, shall we?

I'm in total agreement with you on the banks. (You may want to look back in the thread and see who it was who gave the lengthy explanations about this financial crisis and who it was who pointed out the obvious: that we did have socialism in the banking industry. Why you would say you were the only one who has a problem with this is beyond me.)

P.S By the way, it would have been the end of the world. These investments have been sold to individual investors, institutions, and governments everywhere. (Yes, they are still out there.) People bought these investments because they believed in the ratings that were put on them and they had this convoluted idea that our government was made up of responsible adults who would never have allowed them to be marketed if they weren't, in fact, properly rated.

I'm certainly not in support of government management of the financial services industry, but my problem is more with the administration that sowed the seeds of this disaster (Bill Clinton) than the subsequent presidents (George Bush and Barack Obama) who had to step in with our money to clean up the mess he left.


(P.S.S. The reason they won't break up the big banks is that socialism thing we've been talking about here. They don't want to be broken up, and they have a government willing to acquiesce.)



Worthwhile reading:

www.bloomberg.com
www.theratingsdebate.com







--hide--



Hi William et alia,

It may not have been the end of the world, but it would have caused a great deal of hurt for everybody, there's no doubt about that. If things got really terrible, maybe even a war. So yes, TARP was most probably necessary.

Now, Social Security and Medicare are forms of socialism, along with public schools and universities. Are you for or against them, and why?

James ☺

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