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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Nov 17th 2012 new

YES


Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stupidity but I don't think that's a sin.


If you are not willing to defend a right to life then all other "rights" are meaningless.

Nov 17th 2012 new

Some are guilty of believing a lie; they have been deceived and it is our responsibility to sow the seeds of truth and charitably spread the gospel, especially in correcting error and explaining to them the murderous reality of abortion. Others know abortion is wrong and they vote against life claiming there are other important issues; but if you measure importance in loss of life, there is no comparison, they may be guilty. Others know it is wrong and they justify their anti life actions; they are guilty of mortal sin. We are guilty of some degree of sin ourselves, if we are complicit or silent, or fail to act to defend life in some effective way(s). Obviously, we have all failed in defeating this culture of death in the past election cycle regarding the presidency. But there is great hope, even for Obama. May all of our hearts be continually converted to He who is the way, the truth, and the life.

Nov 17th 2012 new

(Quote) Joe-787295 said: Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stupidity but I don't think that's a sin....
(Quote) Joe-787295 said:

Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stupidity but I don't think that's a sin.

--hide--


laughing Too true.


Sadly, we will be held accountable for the stupidity, or the sinfulness, of others. Catholics have a great responsibility to impact the world around us. We can't stop praying. We can't stop voicing the truth. Show the world the value of life and love by the way we live. It is up to us, the laity, to change the culture. theheart

Nov 19th 2012 new
That some are priests scares me. There have been other issues that I've known priests to disagree on, but one is going against catholic teaching and the other is for it. It sure can make it confusing for us lay people.
Nov 19th 2012 new

(Quote) Graeme-379437 said: That some are priests scares me. There have been other issues that I've known priests to disagree o...
(Quote) Graeme-379437 said: That some are priests scares me. There have been other issues that I've known priests to disagree on, but one is going against catholic teaching and the other is for it. It sure can make it confusing for us lay people.
--hide--


I agree, when the priest is spiritual father and leader of his flock, he is held to a higher standard than us lay people. If this leadership is in conflict with Holy Mother Church, then I shudder to think what awaits them at Judgment. And to make matters worse, if their leadership leads others astray or to sin then they also incur the guilt of another's sin. Yes, we all have personal responsibility, but our priests are there for guidance.


This is why it is so important for us lay people to know our faith and the Catechism of the Catholic Church is a wonderful resource. When we are educated, we can hold our pastor's accountable (as long as it is done in a loving, gentle way).

Nov 20th 2012 new

Mortal sin is to knowingly and willing engage in a behavior that is gravely immoral. I think that voting for Obama is gravely immoral, but that does not make it a sin if a person is, through no fault of their own, ignorant of Church teaching

Nov 21st 2012 new
I agree Matt, and think that there's quite a bit of 'truth' to your Post; I was once a Democratic Catholic, with a weak understanding of our pro life teaching, and abortion! I may be going out on a limb, but likely the less educated, and a lot Hispanic Cattolics are in this category... Also, another Post mentioned Priests, who at the very least, are not instructing their parishoners 'which' candidate is morally correct to vote for and 'why!' God Bless Matt and the other Catholic Posters on here!!! :-)
Nov 21st 2012 new



NO THEY ARE NOT. YOU CANNOT JUDGE WHAT IS IN VOTER HEARTS, INCLUDING YOURS, PERHAPS!



(Quote) Joe-787295 said: YES Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stup...
(Quote) Joe-787295 said:

YES


Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stupidity but I don't think that's a sin.


If you are not willing to defend a right to life then all other "rights" are meaningless.

--hide--




Nov 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Karis-410918 said: NO THEY ARE NOT. YOU CANNOT JUDGE WHAT IS IN VOTER HEARTS, INCLUDING YOURS, PERHAPS!
(Quote) Karis-410918 said:



NO THEY ARE NOT. YOU CANNOT JUDGE WHAT IS IN VOTER HEARTS, INCLUDING YOURS, PERHAPS!







--hide--


I can not judge what is in their hearts, but I can judge on actions taken. To profess to be a catholic and then vote for a man and/or party that can campaign on a pro abortion platform is truly disturbing. God shall hold us all accountable for the votes we make.

I truly don't care "what is in your heart". I am more upset by what is in your brain.

Nov 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Joe-787295 said: YES Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stup...
(Quote) Joe-787295 said:

YES


Those that voted for Obama are also guilty of stupidity but I don't think that's a sin.


If you are not willing to defend a right to life then all other "rights" are meaningless.

--hide--

Joe, you need to be careful. Anyone who voted for Obummer is guilty of utter lack of intelligent appraisal. But their foolish act may not have been sinful. Remember, for any act to be sinful, mortal or venial, three conditions must be met.

The act must be intrinsically wrong, a person must know it is intrinsically wrong and they must choose to do it anyway.

Unfortunately, relatively few Bishops spoke out as clearly and forcibly as say Chaput of Philadelphia. The official statement from the USCCB was such that one must have more than a 9th grade reading ability (the level of reading ability that writing experts say writing should be at for general understanding) and must have spent some time reflecting on it to understand what was said. A quick read would leave one with the impression that all we have to do is pay some attention and vote our conscience.

Most people never saw or heard the Bishops'position. What they did hear or see was what their priest in the pulpit had to say or what was published in the parish bulletin. Here, even more problems occurred. Too many pastors never said a word or published anything. Too many, did not agree with the Bishops. Too many used the same high level language used by the Bishops.

In short, in all charity it must be said that most Catholics did not believe that a vote for Obummer was intrinsically evil and concentrated on other things.

And it must be remembered that for so long the Church in America has had a position that the only thing that mattered was "social justice" issues with an almost complete silence about even addressing the issues of intrinsic evil.

And finally, there is the sad fact that most Catholics are Catholic in name only. That has come about for many reasons, all of which are frequently discussed in these forums.

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