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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Nov 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I'm not qualified to answer that theologically, but we had a choice between a candidate who b...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I'm not qualified to answer that theologically, but we had a choice between a candidate who believes pre-born humans are to be taken out with the trash, and a candidate who was gung-ho for another unnecessary war. I voted for the next war sick to my stomach at the choice we had, since a third party vote was a vote for Obama.

--hide--

Peter, there were a lot of reasons to hold your nose voting for Romney. But to accuse him of being "... gung ho for another unnecessary war." is pure fantasy

Nov 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Peter, there were a lot of reasons to hold your nose voting for Romney. But to accuse him...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Peter, there were a lot of reasons to hold your nose voting for Romney. But to accuse him of being "... gung ho for another unnecessary war." is pure fantasy

--hide--
Hardly fantasy, Paul. You may recall his recent trip, where in Israel he made Americans cringe with his stunningly ignorant comments. Romney also made it very clear he would not hesitate to commit our military in "defense" of a foreign country. With respect Paul, most Americans have no idea what is actually going on over there, and I'm not going to hijack this thread by discussing it any further- it's become a bad habit of mine!

Nov 24th 2012 new

NO THEY ARE NOT - unless they voted with a specific intnetion such as validating his pro-abortion policies.

Nov 24th 2012 new

Yes. If they knew the gravity of what they were doing and did it anyway, yes. If they are non Christian, then maybe not.

Nov 24th 2012 new

This was true back then as it is true now . and in the next election if there is one .



Dear Brother Knight,

Just prior to the election in November of 1884, our founder, the Venerable Servant of God Father Michael McGivney gave his congregation some important advice about the upcoming election. He said:

"In casting your ballots, you should look well to the responsibilities under which every citizen of this free government is placed. Let not the soft or alluring words of tricky politicians, or the seductive dollar turn you a hair's breadth from your lawful path. Vote not as other men dictate, but rather like men with the interest of your country at heart. Vote according to the dictates of your own consciences."

This year we face an important election. Let us take our founder's words to heart.

Vote for life and liberty. Vote with a well formed conscience.

Vivat Jesus!


Nov 24th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I think one has to differentiate between material and formal support or aid given a per...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I think one has to differentiate between material and formal support or aid given a person.

Here is an example demonstrating the difference:

A taxi driver transports a woman to an abortion clinic with neither hope nor intention that she procure an abortion. He is merely delivering her as a client who contracted business with him to transport her to a specific place.

This is material aid. The action of transporting fares is neutral.

A taxi driver transports a woman to an abortion clinic because he wants her to procure an abortion for which she is intending to go there. His is taking her not only to fulfill a contract, but also to fulfill the union of wills regarding the procurement of the abortion.

This is formal aid. Aligning one's self in union with commission of an intrinsic evil is evil action.

Sin is not committed by material aid in itself, but sin is committed by formal aid.

If an adult voted for Pres. Obama in spite of his party platform, for the purpose of moral benefit Mr. Obama offered in campaign promises, then he has offered only material support by his vote.

If an adult voted for Pres. Obama, in union with his party platform, for the purpose of immoral benefits Mr. Obama offered in campaign promises, then he has offered formal support by his vote.

That said, I don't know how a Pres. Obama supporter can stand before Christ at his particular judgment and offer a good enough reason to give material aid to a man who has no scruple about ending the lives of so many children before they are even born.

--hide--


I totally disagree with your analysis, Chelsea. The adults who voted for Pres. Obama for the purpose of moral benefit or immoral benefits all knew more babies would die if Obama were reelected. No one can hide behind rationalization on this issue.


I do agree with your last statement.


- Elizabeth

Nov 24th 2012 new

(Quote) Joe-787295 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Hi Joe et alia,Hi Joe :-) We meet ...
(Quote) Joe-787295 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:



Hi Joe et alia,

Hi Joe :-) We meet again. Must be kismet.

I vote "NO". Oh sure, I'm willing to vote to defend human life. I've done so all my life, and, considering the results, I should have saved myself the trouble. Indeed, Romney himself pointed out that anti-abortion legislation is not in his focus. Of course, later on, he "clarified" his views, only he did so in such a way as to reinforce the notion that this guy will say anything to get elected.

Both Democrats and Republicans should be glad that Romney is gone, and hopefully we will not hear from him again.
And yes, I've been here too long to know that that will not happen.



James ☺



Well, when given only two choices; the unborn had a much better chance with Romney than they did Obama. So many accuse Romney of flip flopping on the issue of abortion.

I pray everyday that more people flip flop to the side of life.

When a conservative changes positions, they are doing anything to get elected, when liberals do it they are open minded. How about Obama and gay marriage. Stated it was his position that he was against it, then wow; election #2 - comes out in support of it. What a sincere intellectual this man is.

--hide--


You may have had a case, if your side had other candidates besides Romney and Ryan. Romney said flat out he wasn't going to do anything about abortion. Ryan first tried to pass himself off as an ardent acolyte of Ayn Rand, and then demonstrated his contempt for the electorate by then trying to pass himself off as an acolyte of Aquinas. One would have figured that someone as purportedly as smart as Ryan would have remembered that one cannot serve both God and mammon. Oh well.

The majority don't really care about gay marriage. We do care about Social Security and Medicare, and the seemingly endless wars, which the Republicans don't want to pay for.

Talk about your entitlement programs for the military-industrial complex!

James ☺

Nov 24th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Joe-787295 said: Well, when given only two choices; ...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Joe-787295 said:


Well, when given only two choices; the unborn had a much better chance with Romney than they did Obama. So many accuse Romney of flip flopping on the issue of abortion.

I pray everyday that more people flip flop to the side of life.

When a conservative changes positions, they are doing anything to get elected, when liberals do it they are open minded. How about Obama and gay marriage. Stated it was his position that he was against it, then wow; election #2 - comes out in support of it. What a sincere intellectual this man is.


Plus it is a liberal lie that he flipped flopped on it....he did what he could in a very liberal state....MA was 4 liberals to every 1 conservative and the media ate him up there. We posted sites here that showed what he tried to do to promote the prolife laws....but people who wanted to vote for Obama on here still kept up with the lie telling...and they will have to face that some day when they meet their maker. Romney promised from day one of this election not to use tax dollars to fund planned parenthood...what more did anyone need who had their soul in the right place. At any rate, what he was trying to make his election about this time was about the economy...he kept directing it back to this since it is a mess and Obama's team kept attacking him on a personal level. I am really sick when I think of the people who voted for a man who not only believes it is ok to murder babies...inside or outside of the womb but a man who lied and attacked a candidate who is basically a really decent man with things like ads showing him killing people, etc. I do think these people knew better deep down and whether it is pride that kept them from acknowledging the bishops or a lack of being able to discern what they bishops were saying....well, that remains to be seen in the next life, I guess.

--hide--


Right, Cheryl, he didn't flip-flop on it. You didn't follow the news too carefully, did you? You're real free with your accusations, aren't you? If you are free to write that what I wrote is a "liberal lie", am I free to write that what you wrote is a a far-right delusion?

George Romney, Willard Romney's old man, was in fact a decent man, and if George was running, we wouldn't be arguing. George was honest, hard-working, and a true American industrial and political hero. One cannot say the same for Willard. George is the one who started the tradition of releasing his income tax returns for public scrutiny. Except for the two he released, Willard is the one who broke it. Willard's wife noted that they wouldn't release any more, because the more they released, the more they got attacked.

Kind of makes you wonder what is in those tax returns, doesn't it?

wink
James ☺

Nov 24th 2012 new

Contraception was the beginning of the slippery slope. Protestants were unaccepting of contraception, I am told, back in the 1930's. Look how far we have gone in our society.

Nov 24th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: Right, Cheryl, he didn't flip-flop on it. You didn't follow the news too carefully...
(Quote) James-17080 said:



Right, Cheryl, he didn't flip-flop on it. You didn't follow the news too carefully, did you? You're real free with your accusations, aren't you? If you are free to write that what I wrote is a "liberal lie", am I free to write that what you wrote is a a far-right delusion?

George Romney, Willard Romney's old man, was in fact a decent man, and if George was running, we wouldn't be arguing. George was honest, hard-working, and a true American industrial and political hero. One cannot say the same for Willard. George is the one who started the tradition of releasing his income tax returns for public scrutiny. Except for the two he released, Willard is the one who broke it. Willard's wife noted that they wouldn't release any more, because the more they released, the more they got attacked.

Kind of makes you wonder what is in those tax returns, doesn't it?


James ☺

--hide--

I'll make you a trade -

Romney's tax returns for Obama's student records. Kind of makes you wonder what is in those student records, doesn't it?

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