Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Hi Chelsea et alia,Wait a minu...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:



Hi Chelsea et alia,

Wait a minute. What are we talking about here? There are people who aren't very intelligent, or even rational. But that does not define whether they are human or not.

Right back at'cha, Chelsea :-)

James ☺




James,

There are people who are not highly intelligent. You're right. However, in order to distinguish between degrees of some condition, such as you have with intelligent (i.e., "aren't very intelligent"), you have to admit first they have intelligence. This you have done implicitly by stating there is a low degree of intelligence present.

There are people who are not rational. You're right. However, the nature of a being is never defined by the abnormal. People can choose to break their rational nature (that's what Adam's original sin is all about, and after Baptism what mortal and venial sin is all about). A person who has chosen to be irrational or who is irrational from birth, however, is not said NOT to be a human being, but rather a dysfunctional human being.


--hide--


Hi Chelsea et alia,

Of couse, that is what I'm saying. I'm Exhibit A of someone who isn't intelligent. But I'm still a h.sapiens (but maybe not a h.sapiens.sapiens.)
Here is an example of a carbon-based life form that is not a member of h.sapiens:

www.youtube.com

These ravens display more intelligence than most people I know, and trust me, I've known some smarties.

wink

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: I have a very close friend whose 14-year ...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Liberacion-894835 said:

I have a very close friend whose 14-year old son, an altar boy does not go to church anymore unless they can explain to him the theory of evolution. She said his son believes in what his teacher taught in the class. How safe would our children be in public schools that teaches evolution and the teacher happens to be a non-Catholic and believes in this theory.




This is really quite easy.

Just explain to him that evolution is one of the many ways God uses to express his creation here on earth. Evolution does not diminish the Creator's power or glory in any way. In fact, the workings of the universe, with all its laws of physics, chemistry and biology, are so orderly and rational that they are firm evidence that there is a Creator. It is illogical to believe in a rational universe without an intelligent Creator. God can create the universe however he wishes it to be, and he has created the processes of evolution as one of his ways to express himself and his majesty. Everything we learn in science is merely peering into the way in which God holds his universe in existence. Teach him the religion will explain the Why to him. Let science explain the How.


--hide--


Hi Gerald et alia,

Agreed! I wish I had written what you wrote. A day late and a dollar short, as usual. Honestly, Gerald, good job.

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: I have a very close friend whose 14-year ...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Liberacion-894835 said:

I have a very close friend whose 14-year old son, an altar boy does not go to church anymore unless they can explain to him the theory of evolution. She said his son believes in what his teacher taught in the class. How safe would our children be in public schools that teaches evolution and the teacher happens to be a non-Catholic and believes in this theory.




This is really quite easy.

Just explain to him that evolution is one of the many ways God uses to express his creation here on earth. Evolution does not diminish the Creator's power or glory in any way. In fact, the workings of the universe, with all its laws of physics, chemistry and biology, are so orderly and rational that they are firm evidence that there is a Creator. It is illogical to believe in a rational universe without an intelligent Creator. God can create the universe however he wishes it to be, and he has created the processes of evolution as one of his ways to express himself and his majesty. Everything we learn in science is merely peering into the way in which God holds his universe in existence. Teach him the religion will explain the Why to him. Let science explain the How.


--hide--


Hi Gerald et alia,

Agreed! I wish I had written what you wrote. A day late and a dollar short, as usual. Honestly, Gerald, good job.

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: I have a very close friend whose 14-year ...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Liberacion-894835 said:

I have a very close friend whose 14-year old son, an altar boy does not go to church anymore unless they can explain to him the theory of evolution. She said his son believes in what his teacher taught in the class. How safe would our children be in public schools that teaches evolution and the teacher happens to be a non-Catholic and believes in this theory.




This is really quite easy.

Just explain to him that evolution is one of the many ways God uses to express his creation here on earth. Evolution does not diminish the Creator's power or glory in any way. In fact, the workings of the universe, with all its laws of physics, chemistry and biology, are so orderly and rational that they are firm evidence that there is a Creator. It is illogical to believe in a rational universe without an intelligent Creator. God can create the universe however he wishes it to be, and he has created the processes of evolution as one of his ways to express himself and his majesty. Everything we learn in science is merely peering into the way in which God holds his universe in existence. Teach him the religion will explain the Why to him. Let science explain the How.


--hide--


Hi Gerald et alia,

Agreed! I wish I had written what you wrote. A day late and a dollar short, as usual. Honestly, Gerald, good job.

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: I have a very close friend whose 14-year ...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Liberacion-894835 said:

I have a very close friend whose 14-year old son, an altar boy does not go to church anymore unless they can explain to him the theory of evolution. She said his son believes in what his teacher taught in the class. How safe would our children be in public schools that teaches evolution and the teacher happens to be a non-Catholic and believes in this theory.




This is really quite easy.

Just explain to him that evolution is one of the many ways God uses to express his creation here on earth. Evolution does not diminish the Creator's power or glory in any way. In fact, the workings of the universe, with all its laws of physics, chemistry and biology, are so orderly and rational that they are firm evidence that there is a Creator. It is illogical to believe in a rational universe without an intelligent Creator. God can create the universe however he wishes it to be, and he has created the processes of evolution as one of his ways to express himself and his majesty. Everything we learn in science is merely peering into the way in which God holds his universe in existence. Teach him the religion will explain the Why to him. Let science explain the How.


--hide--


Hi Gerald et alia,

Agreed! I wish I had written what you wrote. A day late and a dollar short, as usual. Honestly, Gerald, good job.

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: I have a very close friend whose 14-year ...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Liberacion-894835 said:

I have a very close friend whose 14-year old son, an altar boy does not go to church anymore unless they can explain to him the theory of evolution. She said his son believes in what his teacher taught in the class. How safe would our children be in public schools that teaches evolution and the teacher happens to be a non-Catholic and believes in this theory.




This is really quite easy.

Just explain to him that evolution is one of the many ways God uses to express his creation here on earth. Evolution does not diminish the Creator's power or glory in any way. In fact, the workings of the universe, with all its laws of physics, chemistry and biology, are so orderly and rational that they are firm evidence that there is a Creator. It is illogical to believe in a rational universe without an intelligent Creator. God can create the universe however he wishes it to be, and he has created the processes of evolution as one of his ways to express himself and his majesty. Everything we learn in science is merely peering into the way in which God holds his universe in existance. Teach him the relgion will explain the Why to him. Let science explain the How.


--hide--



Oops! I apologize. I think the Internet went burp or something.

James ☺

11/25/2012 new

Hi Brother James,

Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biology. But, not sure why others have trouble with it.

Best regards,
Jerry

11/26/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Hi Brother James,Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biol...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Hi Brother James,

Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biology. But, not sure why others have trouble with it.

Best regards,
Jerry

--hide--


Hi Jerry,

For some of us, high school was a long time ago, but there are books and the Internet to educate us. I don't know why others have trouble with this, either. And I've been debating this subject here since 2005.

Jim ☺

11/26/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Hi Brother James,Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biol...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Hi Brother James,

Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biology. But, not sure why others have trouble with it.

Best regards,
Jerry

--hide--

Not everyone who bucks at the notion of a hypothesis called "evolution" being truth is having trouble with it. I don't ascribe to it as a certitude because it's never presented as such. There may be much that supports the hypothesis, but that still doesn't make it certainly true, it merely lends a degree of probability to the hypothesis. It's old news now people pushing "evolution" as dogma, but that doesn't make "evolution" into dogma.

Until there is some way to prove "evolution" is the case amongst the natural sciences, it stays in the realm of probability.

11/28/2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: (Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Hi Brother James,Thank you. It does ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Quote:
Gerald-283546 said:

Hi Brother James,

Thank you. It does seem obvious to me. Got it clear in high school Biology. But, not sure why others have trouble with it.

Best regards,
Jerry


Not everyone who bucks at the notion of a hypothesis called "evolution" being truth is having trouble with it. I don't ascribe to it as a certitude because it's never presented as such. There may be much that supports the hypothesis, but that still doesn't make it certainly true, it merely lends a degree of probability to the hypothesis. It's old news now people pushing "evolution" as dogma, but that doesn't make "evolution" into dogma.

Until there is some way to prove "evolution" is the case amongst the natural sciences, it stays in the realm of probability.

--hide--


Hi Chelsea et alia,

Evolution is more than a hypothesis. And the biologists didn't even need JPII to tell them that. Evolution is in fact the underlying framework of biology, without which nothing makes very much sense. Biologists have observed the evolution of new species (on a minor scale), and of course microevolution, which even the creationist crowd accepts. What's the difference between microevolution and macroevolution? A longer period of time during which more and more changes can take place. So why does evolution occur at all? There are several fundamental reasons. First, anyone who has taken more than a modicum of organic chemistry at the college level knows that organic reactions are "messy". When doing an experiment to create a given organic compound, you usually got the compound you were seeking, along with a whole cluster of "impurities". These impurities are the result of, in part, a carbon atom's ability to link to another carbon atom, which in turn links to other carbon atoms, forming at times large polymers (DNA is a polymer). Even after controlling for all possible variables in the laboratory, reactions typically don't go exactly the same way twice. Another reason is the latent radioactivity of not only the metals potassium and rubidium, but carbon itself. Potassium is an essential trace metal for all plants and animals. Rubidium is a fairly common radioactive metal which is closely related to potassium (they are both alkali metals). A person weighing 100 kg has about a gram of rubidium in his body. And then there is carbon itself. Carbon 14 drifts down from the upper atmosphere where living beings ingest it. Eventually, they die, and the carbon-14 importation stops. This is why carbon-14 dating works (up to about 50,000 years). All this natural radioactivity can easily cause genetic mutation.

Is evolution "certainly true"? This is a tricky question, but the answer is "no". It is no more certainly true than Newtonian mechanics (which fails for things that are very small or going very fast), or any other field in science. It's happened before that today's Wonderful Theory turns out to be tomorrow's junk. But for a 150 year theory, evolution is stronger than ever. This should not be construed to mean evolution is perfect. Evolution, like every other current branch of science, has its share of unanswered questions. And it is quite possible that they will remain forever unanswered (this has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with a peculiar result arising from Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. I had some details here somewhere, if I can find them I will post them).

A couple more comments, and then I'm off. No biologist considers evolution to be "dogma". Science (and scientists) do not work that way. Finally, "proof" exists only in mathematics and alcohol (I got that from someone arguing with the Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis).

James ☺

Posts 31 - 40 of 58