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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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12/01/2012 new

(Quote) Rose-921185 said: Back to the original question (sorry, distracted by some of the not so nice debate), I do know cou...
(Quote) Rose-921185 said:

Back to the original question (sorry, distracted by some of the not so nice debate), I do know couples who seem to be happy but who don't attend the same liturgy, and that does cause some stress. More so, if children are involved. I believe children need to grow up well connected to a parish community, but that doesn't mean that people can't visit different liturgies at different times. I do, but as I said before, I am usually at the TLM.


For dating /courting couples who are getting serious, eventually a decision will need to be made as to where the family will attend. That will require much prayer for good discernment by both parties. In my opinion, it may be harder for a person who prefers the EF /TLM to change to the OF /NO as there are elements that would be very distracting in worshipping faithfully. I strongly disagree that the TLM is "nonsense" and that shows a lack of understanding on the part of the gentleman who made that comment.

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If the comment about nonsense you are referring to was the one made by David, I think that if you go back and re-read his post you will see that he is referring to the notion that one liturgy is better than another one, not to the Tridentine Mass.

For those of you relatively new to CM, I will point out that this is something of an ongoing issue. There are those here who very much take the attitude that there are the real Catholics who go to Latin Masses, and Latin Masses only, and then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics but obviously aren't because they go to the devil inspired Novus Ordo Masses. And that's before it goes downhill. Sometimes we get treated to lovely displays of anti-Semitism and other such wonderful things.

Consequently there is some militancy about the notion that one form is better than another.

12/01/2012 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: There is little animosity between Catholics of various rites. What is being discussed here are n...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:



There is little animosity between Catholics of various rites. What is being discussed here are not different rites but persons who are so ignorant of their faith that they display no Christianity to others who do not see things the way they do.

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Hi Paul, maybe I didn't express myself clearly but I was trying to say the same thing you are. I wasn't discussing different rites but how some people, as you said, show no Christianity to others who do not see things there way- and who feel their way is the best way or the right way. Best -Jo
12/01/2012 new
--Then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics

>As someone coming from a Protestant background, I can say that that poor catechesis that many American Catholics get has transformed them into more or less Protestant in faith and practice.

It's a go along to get along sort of thing with the Protestants.
12/01/2012 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: --Then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics >As someone coming f...
(Quote) John-220051 said: --Then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics

>As someone coming from a Protestant background, I can say that that poor catechesis that many American Catholics get has transformed them into more or less Protestant in faith and practice.

It's a go along to get along sort of thing with the Protestants.
--hide--
what are you referring to/??

12/01/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said: what are you referring to/??
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:

what are you referring to/??

--hide--

The attitude of some, NOT all, of the people who go to the Tridentine Mass.

There are those who hate the Novus Ordo form so much they have convinced themselves it is invalid and that everybody who goes there is not a real Catholic.

It's a shame really,if for not other reason than because it gives the EF a bad name that it doesn't deserve.

12/01/2012 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: --Then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics >As someone coming f...
(Quote) John-220051 said: --Then there are the slimy Protestants who dare call themselves Catholics

>As someone coming from a Protestant background, I can say that that poor catechesis that many American Catholics get has transformed them into more or less Protestant in faith and practice.

It's a go along to get along sort of thing with the Protestants.
--hide--

I agree with you completely that the Church has done a terrible job with catechises during my lifetime.

But the problem is with the folks doing, or failing to do, the teaching, not with one form of the Mass or another.

12/01/2012 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: The exact same thing happened to me. I met (initially on here, later on FB) a wonderful woman who w...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

The exact same thing happened to me. I met (initially on here, later on FB) a wonderful woman who was a convert, and very passionate about the faith. She stated that the Latin Mass is the only true Mass, and also discussed her disdain for those who didn't practice a particular dress code. A different couple at my parish told me that I had to attend the Mass with their group in order to meet the "REAL Jesus". Needless to say, I very seldom communicate with these people anymore.

It's not that I don't want to participate more fully in the Mass. I just don't care for the legalistic, scrupulous types that feel they need to force it on me. I've yet to read in the Gospels where Jesus says "Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, but only under a certain dress code and only in the Latin Mass." I really wonder what he would say to the people you described.

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I have experienced similar. It can become kind of a snooty thing. I know a woman who told me that not covering my head was basically a sin but she went to her divorced sons wedding to Filopino girl. He was married by an ex priest. I dont get it sometimes

12/01/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: OF = Ordinary Form. The Novus Order, post VII Mass that is celebrated in most parishes. T...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

OF = Ordinary Form. The Novus Order, post VII Mass that is celebrated in most parishes. This CAN be done in Latin, or any other language. The rubrics and prayers would still be the same, just in a different language

EF = Extraordinary Form. The Tridentine Mass from pre-VII. This will be done in Latin, priest facing the alter at the head of the people etc.

It sounds like you may have stumbled upon an SSPX group (Society of Saint Pious X). They are a group who, while they have not (as of yet anyway) been formally declared schismatics by the Vatican, are not legitimately exercising priestly functions. Actual membership in the SSPX is limited to priests, but they have lay followers. They hate VII and are obsessed with the Tridentine Mass. If they are in fact SSPX, I would steer clear of them, just like the Pope has requested.

There are a number of different goupings of people who can come under the umbrella of "traditionalist." It sounds like you encountered one of the extreme ones.

There are less extreme outlooks who prefer the Tridentine Mass to the Novus Ordo, but do not claim the Novus Ordo to be invalid. Sadly, as usual, the extremists tend to get the most "press."

The Tridentine Mass, as you no doubt observed, is a very different experience than the Novus Ordo. Being singled out and embarassed by the priest and congregation might have made the finer points of the EF a little hard to see, but there is certainly beauty there.

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The OF, aka the Novus Ordo, can be said in the vernacular, but its "native tongue" is Latin. That's how the original, and most up to date text is written in, and that's where the antiphons said for each particular mass, known as the "propers", are in that language with their appropriate chant melodies. These are in a book known as the gradual, or "Graduale Romanae."

The OF, if performed according with full adherance to the rubrics of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), can be performed ad orientem, with the priest leading the people as in the EF. It's somewhat different, and if you've sung in a schola for the EF you quickly notice the differences between the EF and OF forms for high missa cantata, but both are very spirtually enlightening.

12/01/2012 new
what are you referring to/??

>>I'm referring to the millions of poorly catechized Catholics who think that Catholicism and Protestantism are the same thing. I've met countless Catholics who think this way.

Not to mention, the Novus Ordo is often celebrated in many places in a manner resembling the Lutheran services I grew up with.
12/01/2012 new

(Quote) Rose-921185 said: For dating /courting couples who are getting serious, eventually a decision will need to be made a...
(Quote) Rose-921185 said:

For dating /courting couples who are getting serious, eventually a decision will need to be made as to where the family will attend. That will require much prayer for good discernment by both parties. In my opinion, it may be harder for a person who prefers the EF /TLM to change to the OF /NO as there are elements that would be very distracting in worshipping faithfully. I strongly disagree that the TLM is "nonsense" and that shows a lack of understanding on the part of the gentleman who made that comment.

--hide--



The shame of it is that there should be no difference in sentiment by either person; they are both the Mass. I attend TLM (with either a Christ the King parish or an FSSP parish) on Sundays, holydays, or days when I am not in the city. I attend the Novus Ordo Mass when I am working in NYC.

What occurs in most Catholic churches today is not the Novus Ordo Mass as envisioned at the time of Vatican II, whether it be the practice of priests facing the people for Mass, the common practice of using "Eucharistic Ministers" (and changing the term for such a person from "Extraordinary Minster"), or the practice of priests changing the words of the Mass at their whim. (Say what you want about Latin, but it makes no sense for the priest to change words if the people have no idea what he is saying.)

If the Novus Ordo were to be said in the form intended at the time of Vatican II, it wouldn't make a difference to anyone where they attended Mass; the differences would be too subtle. They aren't however, and hence the debate.




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