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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Dec 3rd 2012 new

boggled This is a very interesting issue, and one that I have faced extensively. My brother is gay and has a partner of many years. It has been an ongoing personal debate for me.
boggled In reflecting, I think that my tendency to be an outspoke advocate for groups who are in the minority may get in my way of seeing this issue clearly.

As much as I have, in the past, denied it, the fact is that the Bible does teach that this is wrong. You can debate in all kinds of ways how this may not apply, but it comes down to one thing: it either says it or it doesn't.


The fact is, it does say that it's wrong. Trust me, I looked - about a hundred times just to be absolutely certain.

It's really a disheartening thing for me, because my brother has always been like some kind of superhero to me. He's brilliant, accomplished, and clearly cares. In the beginning of my divorce - a shocker of a beginning -my brother was the one who either had the answers or knew where to find them, not unlike when we were kids and he was always there to tie a shoe or go tattle on me when I climbed to high in a tree scratchchin .


I guess the only conclusion I can come to on this issue at this point in time is to say that even "superheroes" aren't perfect.

Dec 3rd 2012 new

(Quote) Joachim-908165 said: My mind is troubled. I don't like to see any individual of sex, race or creed persecuted. I...
(Quote) Joachim-908165 said:

My mind is troubled. I don't like to see any individual of sex, race or creed persecuted. I know and understand why the practice of homosexuality is wrong; I just feel sympathetic towards those who are blinded by society's teachings that it is an "accepted sexual orientation". How should I balance the concern I have for homosexuals while strictly adhereing to the Church's teachings?

--hide--


Unfortunately this is a topic that affects each generation at a younger and younger age. My eleven year old daughter was asking about it and how and what made it a sin. I put it as simply as possible: sometimes we can't choose who we are drawn too but we can choose how we act on it. Any act of sex outside marriage is a sin and the Bible states marriage is between a man and woman. Therefore acting on that atraction is a sin.
I think the media twists and distorts everything it touches and we lose sight of the simple facts, like the 10 Commandments. It is up to each of us to stand up for what we believe in. Some of us will do this loudly and others softly and quietly.

Dec 3rd 2012 new
Hedonism is a fool's paradise until it's time to pay the piper. Virtue should be the utmost value of society, not some vague notion of "happiness."

When my happiness leads me to only think of myself and forget its impact on society it becomes something else -- vice.

Liberals seem to be allergic to the big picture.
Dec 3rd 2012 new
(Quote) John-220051 said: Countless surveys and the census show 2 percent. Feeling and knowing are two unrelated things. Some areas such as S...
(Quote) John-220051 said: Countless surveys and the census show 2 percent. Feeling and knowing are two unrelated things. Some areas such as S.F. and the Village have higher concentrations, but globally and nationally people who are exclusively homosexual is between 1 and 2 percent.



And those who contract same-sex "marriages" where it is legal is less than 1 percent. (Netherlands, Massachusetts, etc.)
--hide--


That is shocking to me, but then again, I do live in the Village.
Dec 3rd 2012 new

As a member of the military, the agenda was forced upon me first when "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was enacted, then later the overall policy was repealed. I find conflict to enforce their rights while at the same time maintain my Catholic beliefs. No one is asking me to accept the lifestyle, but I feel as if I have to actually enforce it, which causes some anxiety.


That said, I've yet to meet an openly gay Soldier. I would just rather they minded their own business as I mind mine. Overall, that's the problem I have with the national agenda: Attempting to force me into condoning it, which I just will not do. I follow the late JPII's statement that the actions themselves violate natural and divine law. But I also will not condone anyone assaulting let alone killing someone over it.

Dec 3rd 2012 new
(Quote) Celia-821539 said: This is a very interesting issue, and one that I have faced extensively. My brother is gay and has a partner ...
(Quote) Celia-821539 said:

This is a very interesting issue, and one that I have faced extensively. My brother is gay and has a partner of many years. It has been an ongoing personal debate for me.
In reflecting, I think that my tendency to be an outspoke advocate for groups who are in the minority may get in my way of seeing this issue clearly.

As much as I have, in the past, denied it, the fact is that the Bible does teach that this is wrong. You can debate in all kinds of ways how this may not apply, but it comes down to one thing: it either says it or it doesn't.


The fact is, it does say that it's wrong. Trust me, I looked - about a hundred times just to be absolutely certain.

It's really a disheartening thing for me, because my brother has always been like some kind of superhero to me. He's brilliant, accomplished, and clearly cares. In the beginning of my divorce - a shocker of a beginning -my brother was the one who either had the answers or knew where to find them, not unlike when we were kids and he was always there to tie a shoe or go tattle on me when I climbed to high in a tree .


I guess the only conclusion I can come to on this issue at this point in time is to say that even "superheroes" aren't perfect.

--hide--


Hi Celia,

I am so sorry. I know how it feels to be torn between wanting to support a loved one and doing what is right. My gay cousin once sent me an online petition that he asked me to sign in support of gay marriage. I thought my heart would stop when I saw it. I know it would hurt him very much to know that I ignored the e-mail, but I of course could not sign it. I don't know what I would have done if he handed it to me in person. Probably faint or something. The last thing I want to do is hurt him, but my relationship with God takes priority. All we can do is pray for them.

Best

Jo

Praying
Dec 4th 2012 new

We had a marriage amendment vote in Minnesota so it was a public discussion. I know I have some nieces who think I am wrong for voting marriage as man and woman. So this issue becomes very personal across the board.

I search my mind for the solution. I don't have the answer.

However, what if they didn't use the word marriage, but something other? domestic partner or committed friendship - we don't have to believe those words imply sexual context, their own business. And this would provide singles across the board a way to promote what is good - friendship.

In general, many people need someone else living with or looking out for them, especially as family size decreases - I think? I don't know if that is just misleading. I think chaste committed friendships in the secular world, could be sort of like endorsing, religious vocations??

I realize problems probably abound in my attempt at a peacemakers solutions.

Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) Celia-821539 said: This is a very interesting issue, and one that I have faced extensively. My brother is gay and ha...
(Quote) Celia-821539 said:

This is a very interesting issue, and one that I have faced extensively. My brother is gay and has a partner of many years. It has been an ongoing personal debate for me.
In reflecting, I think that my tendency to be an outspoke advocate for groups who are in the minority may get in my way of seeing this issue clearly.

As much as I have, in the past, denied it, the fact is that the Bible does teach that this is wrong. You can debate in all kinds of ways how this may not apply, but it comes down to one thing: it either says it or it doesn't.


The fact is, it does say that it's wrong. Trust me, I looked - about a hundred times just to be absolutely certain.

It's really a disheartening thing for me, because my brother has always been like some kind of superhero to me. He's brilliant, accomplished, and clearly cares. In the beginning of my divorce - a shocker of a beginning -my brother was the one who either had the answers or knew where to find them, not unlike when we were kids and he was always there to tie a shoe or go tattle on me when I climbed to high in a tree .


I guess the only conclusion I can come to on this issue at this point in time is to say that even "superheroes" aren't perfect.

--hide--



My son lived with his girlfriend for 8 years. I never condoned it, they knew my feelings but it didn't change my love for him. As a matter of fact he has done many things I didn't approve of. There is a saying that has helped me over the years. "You may not agree or like what they are doing, but you just love them through it". I prayed and prayed, he just got married in the church last month:) She isn't Catholic or even baptized so now I am praying for her conversion. No one is perfect, we love anyway. Pray for him and put him in God's hands.

Dec 4th 2012 new
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said: We had a marriage amendment vote in Minnesota so it was a public discussion. I know I have some nieces who t...
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said:

We had a marriage amendment vote in Minnesota so it was a public discussion. I know I have some nieces who think I am wrong for voting marriage as man and woman. So this issue becomes very personal across the board.

I search my mind for the solution. I don't have the answer.

However, what if they didn't use the word marriage, but something other? domestic partner or committed friendship - we don't have to believe those words imply sexual context, their own business. And this would provide singles across the board a way to promote what is good - friendship.

In general, many people need someone else living with or looking out for them, especially as family size decreases - I think? I don't know if that is just misleading. I think chaste committed friendships in the secular world, could be sort of like endorsing, religious vocations??

I realize problems probably abound in my attempt at a peacemakers solutions.

--hide--
Matthew 5:9 Blest too the peacemakers, they shall be called sons of God. :D
Dec 4th 2012 new
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: Hi Celia, I am so sorry. I know how it feels to be torn between wanting to support a loved on...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

Hi Celia,

I am so sorry. I know how it feels to be torn between wanting to support a loved one and doing what is right. My gay cousin once sent me an online petition that he asked me to sign in support of gay marriage. I thought my heart would stop when I saw it. I know it would hurt him very much to know that I ignored the e-mail, but I of course could not sign it. I don't know what I would have done if he handed it to me in person. Probably faint or something. The last thing I want to do is hurt him, but my relationship with God takes priority. All we can do is pray for them.

Best

Jo

--hide--
I have not had the opportunity to vote on this issue in my state and I will probably be in the minority when I say this but .... I'm not sure I would vote against it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the church is the entity that provides the sacrament of marriage. The state only gives you a marriage license, by application, even for those not "marrying" in any church. As the Catholic Church decides whom it will marry I'm not as concerned with what the states does. Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's etc. etc. I am not condoning it, only saying that someone calling themselves "married" does not change what I know marriage to be according to the church no more than someone else calling themselves patricia makes me any less so. At the end of the day I agree with Celia, pray for them ...
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