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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) David-71657 said: I have to problems with Right to Work laws. People should be free to join the union and lea...
(Quote) David-71657 said:

I have to problems with Right to Work laws.

People should be free to join the union and leave when they want to. They should also be free to negotiate their own employment terms.

I

--hide--
Just a comment on your last sentence, David....

You might be thinking of salaried, white collar employes, some of whom can already negotiate their salaries and/or raises. The rank and file workers (such as factory employes paid hourly) aren't as likely to have much success with their attempts. Hourly employes typically fare better when they act as a group (not necessarily a union).

The problem with individuals negotiating on their own is that there are others who are doing the same or comparable work for the same company, however, are paid differently. People have ways of finding out about these things, and often the result is animosity. We do see this with salaried employes with the difference starting from day one.

The parable about the laborers in the vineyard comes to mind. That's the story about the workers who toiled all day, ending up with the same pay as those who came late and worked for only an hour.

When economic conditions are highly favorable, many employers do what they can for their people, having the means to easily do so. When times get rough, the pendulum shifts, and often disgruntled employes are simply told: "Just be glad you have a job."

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: ...hmmm....interesting. I wonder then if under the new law, people will still feel intimidated i...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

...hmmm....interesting. I wonder then if under the new law, people will still feel intimidated into joining anyway especially if they can still be the first ones cut if they don't. I'm so glad that they legally won't be able to be forced into joining, but I hope that they still won't be intimidated into joining.

Also, did everyone notice how the president since dems are widely supported by unions didn't support this freedom bill....figures.

--hide--



In states like Michigan, the intimidation factor is going to be a concern...at least for a while. My opinion on those being intimidated on a basis of being laid off are really the lazy people. If people want the right to choose their own path, my take is they are also eyeing how they can get ahead in life and/or move up in a company, not how they get lumped into being part of the machine that overwhelmingly caters to those who have been there the longest.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Michigan is seeing large protests over the "Right to Work" changes in their state.
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:

Michigan is seeing large protests over the "Right to Work" changes in their state.

Many states already have "Right to Work," allowing those not belonging to
unions the opportunity to make money.

Unions are very strong entities and some have communist affliations. As in
the case of unions in the public sector, they can have a huge impact, especially
if they decide to strike, which can be against the law.

I know opinions are divided on this issue. What are your thoughts?

--hide--

Right to work is all about freedom of choice in one's associations. That Big Labor is so vehemently against right to work is telling.


Keep in mind also that in a free market economy where businesses must compete not only for customer/clients but also resources, e.g., workers, labor unions are unnecessary. Both Big Labor and Big Business knows this, which is why they consistently support big government politicians who enact laws, e.g., restrictive envrionmental regulations, higher taxes, etc., that have the effect of limiting the number of competing businesses in all industries.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Roger-7582 said: (Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Michigan is seeing large protests over the &qu...
(Quote) Roger-7582 said:

Quote:
Marianne-100218 said:

Michigan is seeing large protests over the "Right to Work" changes in their state.

Many states already have "Right to Work," allowing those not belonging to
unions the opportunity to make money.

Unions are very strong entities and some have communist affliations. As in
the case of unions in the public sector, they can have a huge impact, especially
if they decide to strike, which can be against the law.

I know opinions are divided on this issue. What are your thoughts?


Right to work is all about freedom of choice in one's associations. That Big Labor is so vehemently against right to work is telling.


Keep in mind also that in a free market economy where businesses must compete not only for customer/clients but also resources, e.g., workers, labor unions are unnecessary. Both Big Labor and Big Business knows this, which is why they consistently support big government politicians who enact laws, e.g., restrictive envrionmental regulations, higher taxes, etc., that have the effect of limiting the number of competing businesses in all industries.

--hide--


The face of union thuggery: danaloeschradio.com

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Brian-699857 said: Today, individuals in union states don't have a choice when they hire on to a com...
(Quote) Brian-699857 said:




Today, individuals in union states don't have a choice when they hire on to a company. If a business location is a union jobsite, any new employee must become part of the union and be forced to pay dues as part of the employment agreement. The individual can choose not to be an "active" participant, but his/her wages are garnered regardless. In addition, in some states, local businesses and governments are forced to only accept union bid contracts as a result of union lobbying efforts which limits the ability of small businesses to compete in new contract proposals.

It's not so much that right to work laws take away a union's ability to force terms on non-union members. If a business works out a contract with a union, all employees (minus the executives) whether union or not, abide by the same pay scale. What it does accomplish is to allow a business to increase or reduce its workforce as required, bringing in new talent at either the low or high end of the negotiated salary level without union consent to meet business demands. Non-union members assume the risk of being the first in line to be laid off in a down turn in exchange for not paying union dues, but they are also free to return to work at current wages during a work stoppage without retribution from the union.

It also allows the state governments to accept bids from non-union organizations for specific trades, and instead requires businesses to submit proposals based on industry accepted certifications, resulting in increased competition.

--hide--


Brian, do you think, especially in states like Michigan, that employers will be harassed, even subtly, when they hire
non union workers.

I just can't see those strong unions taking this lightly in Michigan.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: How would a Right to Work law prevent someone from joining or leaving any union? My understand...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

How would a Right to Work law prevent someone from joining or leaving any union? My understanding of these laws it that they simply take away the teeth that unions have to force the terms of their agreements on non-union workers.

--hide--

It my understanding is that in some places, and industries, you are forced to join a union and pay full union dues. Even if you aren't forced to join a union, you still have to pay dues, but something less than full dues, for "services provided" by the union.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Roger-7582 said: The face of union thuggery: danaloeschradio.com.
(Quote) Roger-7582 said:


The face of union thuggery: danaloeschradio.com

--hide--


Boy, that was pretty low, Roger. I mean, everyone has to eat, union or nonunion.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: (Quote) David-71657 said: I have to problems with Right to Work laws.
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

Quote:
David-71657 said:

I have to problems with Right to Work laws.

People should be free to join the union and leave when they want to. They should also be free to negotiate their own employment terms.

I


Just a comment on your last sentence, David....

You might be thinking of salaried, white collar employes, some of whom can already negotiate their salaries and/or raises. The rank and file workers (such as factory employes paid hourly) aren't as likely to have much success with their attempts. Hourly employes typically fare better when they act as a group (not necessarily a union).

The problem with individuals negotiating on their own is that there are others who are doing the same or comparable work for the same company, however, are paid differently. People have ways of finding out about these things, and often the result is animosity. We do see this with salaried employes with the difference starting from day one.

The parable about the laborers in the vineyard comes to mind. That's the story about the workers who toiled all day, ending up with the same pay as those who came late and worked for only an hour.

When economic conditions are highly favorable, many employers do what they can for their people, having the means to easily do so. When times get rough, the pendulum shifts, and often disgruntled employes are simply told: "Just be glad you have a job."

--hide--

What you say is true, for lower level workers there can be a gain.

However, when times are tough there needs to be greater compromise. Look no farther than Hostess. I read somewhere that the union required 2 different people and 2 different trucks to deliver Twinkies and Bread, even though one truck and one employee would be sufficient.

The unions need to be accountable for their members. If you allow members to quit (and stop paying dues), that will quickly make them more relavent, IMHO.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: I am so glad that MI passed this. I am also really suprised considering how liberal the state...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

I am so glad that MI passed this. I am also really suprised considering how liberal the state's citizenship is.

--hide--

There's much more to Michigan than the Detroit metro area! smile West Michigan (in the Lower Peninsula), especially the Grand Rapids metro area, is very conservative.

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Brian, do you think, especially in states like Michigan, that employers will be harass...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Brian, do you think, especially in states like Michigan, that employers will be harassed, even subtly, when they hire
non union workers.

I just can't see those strong unions taking this lightly in Michigan.

--hide--



I don't see the employers being harrassed. Once a law goes into effect, the employers are following the law. There could be some noise made as business changes their HR policies for hiring. Unions will want new hires to be brought in at the lower end of the wage scale, but from what I've seen in the past is that's not always the case and employers will use qualifications to justify the pay. It will be the new hires that are going to be strong-armed to participate.

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