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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Tragic & a terrible waste to lose so many good people from both sides, so sad indeed!!

Now we are going to have more statistics from two concurrent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.



The Wall

A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall:

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including
those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date
and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is
36 years since the last casualties.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth ,
Mass.Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June
8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps
Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.
12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . I wonder why
so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War;
153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.
There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school
football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci
(pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In
quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in
the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of
Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a
group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966.
Only three returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all
boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah, on
Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They
played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field.

And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all
three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth
anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24
hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on
Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968, with
245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968, when 2,415
casualties were incurred.

Most Americans who read this will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War
created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those
who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created.
We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they
were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. There are no
noble wars, only noble warriors.



thewall-usa.com

Dec 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Tragic & a terrible waste to lose so many good people from both sides, so sad indeed!!...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:

Tragic & a terrible waste to lose so many good people from both sides, so sad indeed!!

Now we are going to have more statistics from two concurrent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.



The Wall

A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall:

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including
those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date
and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is
36 years since the last casualties.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth ,
Mass.Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June
8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps
Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.
12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . I wonder why
so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War;
153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.
There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school
football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci
(pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In
quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in
the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of
Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a
group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966.
Only three returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all
boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah, on
Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They
played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field.

And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all
three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth
anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24
hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on
Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968, with
245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968, when 2,415
casualties were incurred.

Most Americans who read this will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War
created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those
who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created.
We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they
were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. There are no
noble wars, only noble warriors.



thewall-usa.com

--hide--
I live less than 20 miles from the wall in Southern Maryland, but have never been able to bring myself to visit it. I was only a Vietnam Era veteran, not a Vietnam veteran but I lost a friend and a few high school classmates there. Seeing all those names on the wall has a powerful impact on visitors. Someday I'll go.

Dec 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I live less than 20 miles from the wall in Southern Maryland, but have never been able to bring m...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I live less than 20 miles from the wall in Southern Maryland, but have never been able to bring myself to visit it. I was only a Vietnam Era veteran, not a Vietnam veteran but I lost a friend and a few high school classmates there. Seeing all those names on the wall has a powerful impact on visitors. Someday I'll go.

--hide--



Peter: I can well understand your hesitation in going. I am sure you have so many emotions from that era.

I was wondering how you felt when you read the Facts about the Wall that I posted, if you did read them?

This is not quite what you are going through, but I had such a strange experience about 7 or 8 years ago. I
saw the movie, Platoon. After that, I kept getting books about Vietnam, and dialogues about Vietnam,
and the era was so alive inside of me--I kept remembering the high school years when the nuns would
talk about the war, and at home we saw the war right on our TV's, and the packages we sent over there, and
the student demonstrations, and the sit ins when I was in college, and the March on Washington that my
cousin went to and got tear gased, and when I used to take the commuter train to work in NYC there were
demonstrations around us.

I kept remembering the blond haired, blue-eyed guy who was a year ahead
of me in high school. He had such a nice girl friend. They were always together. Then he went to
Vietnam and was killed. We went to his wake, right down the block from our high school, and he
was all tanned, and his hair was much lighter from the sun over there, and he looked just like he
was sleeping, because you could not see the bullet that went through his neck and killed him. Such a loss.


I have been to the Wall and it is a special place, like all the other memorials are. There is a lot of activity
because people are walking around looking for names, and others are rubbing over the names with paper
and a pencil.

I think it was hard growing up when we did. On one side were the freaks with the drugs and the sex and
the hatred for authority and the war, and on the other side were the guys getting drafted or enlisting to
go and serve in a war that turned out to be nothing but a futile effort in survival for those guys.

In your heart you did not want to see them go, but at the same time I believed in OUR Government and
really did not realize how wrong that war was. Yet my Dad must have known it because he did not want
my brother to go. My brother tried to enlist behind my Dad's back, but he had a trick knee from a football
injury and did not get in. Everything was upside down in those days. I would not live them again.

I hope someday you will be able to go see it. Just take one step at a time at your own pace. Maybe just
look at it from afar sometime.

Dec 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Peter: I can well understand your hesitation in going. I am sure you have so many ...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:




Peter: I can well understand your hesitation in going. I am sure you have so many emotions from that era.

I was wondering how you felt when you read the Facts about the Wall that I posted, if you did read them?

This is not quite what you are going through, but I had such a strange experience about 7 or 8 years ago. I
saw the movie, Platoon. After that, I kept getting books about Vietnam, and dialogues about Vietnam,
and the era was so alive inside of me--I kept remembering the high school years when the nuns would
talk about the war, and at home we saw the war right on our TV's, and the packages we sent over there, and
the student demonstrations, and the sit ins when I was in college, and the March on Washington that my
cousin went to and got tear gased, and when I used to take the commuter train to work in NYC there were
demonstrations around us.

I kept remembering the blond haired, blue-eyed guy who was a year ahead
of me in high school. He had such a nice girl friend. They were always together. Then he went to
Vietnam and was killed. We went to his wake, right down the block from our high school, and he
was all tanned, and his hair was much lighter from the sun over there, and he looked just like he
was sleeping, because you could not see the bullet that went through his neck and killed him. Such a loss.


I have been to the Wall and it is a special place, like all the other memorials are. There is a lot of activity
because people are walking around looking for names, and others are rubbing over the names with paper
and a pencil.

I think it was hard growing up when we did. On one side were the freaks with the drugs and the sex and
the hatred for authority and the war, and on the other side were the guys getting drafted or enlisting to
go and serve in a war that turned out to be nothing but a futile effort in survival for those guys.

In your heart you did not want to see them go, but at the same time I believed in OUR Government and
really did not realize how wrong that war was. Yet my Dad must have known it because he did not want
my brother to go. My brother tried to enlist behind my Dad's back, but he had a trick knee from a football
injury and did not get in. Everything was upside down in those days. I would not live them again.

I hope someday you will be able to go see it. Just take one step at a time at your own pace. Maybe just
look at it from afar sometime.

--hide--
I did read it, and was especially struck by the youth of some of these young men whose patriotism was so strong they didn't want to wait until they were old enough to join. Forever young. In those days we learned about the "Domino Theory," and believed it. We ridiculed the hippie war protesters- they were no better than Communists to us then. I learned about the Consitution, the Bill of Rights, but I had to mature considerably before I began respecting the rights of others who disagreed with me. I know I'm at odds with most of my fellow CMers on this, but I don't want to see any more young American soldiers dying in wars where the country in question does not threaten the United States. Arguably Afghanistan is the only necessary war we have fought since World War II. What a terrible waste it has been. The same powerful and influential people who had President Bush's ear in 2003 are now doing their level best to push for war with Iran. Our Congress would vote for it in a hearbeat. Some of our media are pounding the drums with their hysterical headlines about Iran and North Korea. When will we learn from our past mistakes?

Dec 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I did read it, and was especially struck by the youth of some of these young men whose patriotism...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I did read it, and was especially struck by the youth of some of these young men whose patriotism was so strong they didn't want to wait until they were old enough to join. Forever young. In those days we learned about the "Domino Theory," and believed it. We ridiculed the hippie war protesters- they were no better than Communists to us then. I learned about the Consitution, the Bill of Rights, but I had to mature considerably before I began respecting the rights of others who disagreed with me. I know I'm at odds with most of my fellow CMers on this, but I don't want to see any more young American soldiers dying in wars where the country in question does not threaten the United States. Arguably Afghanistan is the only necessary war we have fought since World War II. What a terrible waste it has been. The same powerful and influential people who had President Bush's ear in 2003 are now doing their level best to push for war with Iran. Our Congress would vote for it in a hearbeat. Some of our media are pounding the drums with their hysterical headlines about Iran and North Korea. When will we learn from our past mistakes?

--hide--


Do you really think Congress would vote for more war? We are bankrupt and war fatigued. How much more fighting
can the National Guard do? If Congress votes for war, I hope each one of them has to go.

Dec 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I did read it, and was especially struck by the youth of some of these young men whose patriotism...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I did read it, and was especially struck by the youth of some of these young men whose patriotism was so strong they didn't want to wait until they were old enough to join. Forever young. In those days we learned about the "Domino Theory," and believed it. We ridiculed the hippie war protesters- they were no better than Communists to us then. I learned about the Consitution, the Bill of Rights, but I had to mature considerably before I began respecting the rights of others who disagreed with me. I know I'm at odds with most of my fellow CMers on this, but I don't want to see any more young American soldiers dying in wars where the country in question does not threaten the United States. Arguably Afghanistan is the only necessary war we have fought since World War II. What a terrible waste it has been. The same powerful and influential people who had President Bush's ear in 2003 are now doing their level best to push for war with Iran. Our Congress would vote for it in a hearbeat. Some of our media are pounding the drums with their hysterical headlines about Iran and North Korea. When will we learn from our past mistakes?

--hide--


How could a 15-year old sign up? That doesn't sound right. But then again, records weren't so good back then.
Maybe they found out he was only 15, after he died.

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