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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Eucharistic Ministers

Dec 21st 2012 new

One of the things that drove me to attend the Traditional Latin Mass was that during the average Novus Ordo Mass there would always be a team of women (not being sexist but women seemed to dominate in this "role" locally) on the Altar distributing Holy Communion. I was told by a couple of people that I knew that I was a "fuddy duddy" for always going to the Communion line of the priest.

My understanding is that the priest is acting persona Christi and providing us with the Body of Christ on behalf of Jesus himself so those without consecrated hands should never handle the Bread from Heaven. I know that is the view of Traditional Catholics and former Church teaching for many centuries until the 1970's. It seems common on the Catholic Singles web sites for women to write with some pride about being Eucharistic Ministers as part of their "Catholic activities". There are some (including myself) who would consider it to be sinful to handle the Body of Christ.

I am intrigued about what priests tell would be EM's in the process of recruiting them? Are there any EM's out there who could share what they have been taught and why they consider it appropriate to perform that role?

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new
I'm sure a number of CMers will answer your question.

I would like to hear an explanation on why it would be considered "sinful" to handle the Body of Christ when (my understanding is) our goal is to be united with Him, and receiving Communion (correctly) means we are in a state of grace--that is, our sins are forgiven and nothing is a barrier between ourselves and God?

I'm not being sarcastic or what-have-you with my question. I simply don't understand the basis for your statement, Gabor.
LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: One of the things that drove me to attend the Traditional Latin Mass was that during the average N...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

One of the things that drove me to attend the Traditional Latin Mass was that during the average Novus Ordo Mass there would always be a team of women (not being sexist but women seemed to dominate in this "role" locally) on the Altar distributing Holy Communion. I was told by a couple of people that I knew that I was a "fuddy duddy" for always going to the Communion line of the priest.

My understanding is that the priest is acting persona Christi and providing us with the Body of Christ on behalf of Jesus himself so those without consecrated hands should never handle the Bread from Heaven. I know that is the view of Traditional Catholics and former Church teaching for many centuries until the 1970's. It seems common on the Catholic Singles web sites for women to write with some pride about being Eucharistic Ministers as part of their "Catholic activities". There are some (including myself) who would consider it to be sinful to handle the Body of Christ.

I am intrigued about what priests tell would be EM's in the process of recruiting them? Are there any EM's out there who could share what they have been taught and why they consider it appropriate to perform that role?

--hide--


The Eucharistic Ministers, properly Extraordianary Ministers, are my biggest stumbling block with the NO /EF Mass. i too, end up quitely going to the line of the priest. I know a woman who serves in this role and she is very devout and kind, but I still do not think it right. I don't think she means any harm and she is trying to serve in the church, but I have since learned that this is problematic and not consistent with Church Tradition. This is one of the areas where they Church has allowed for greater freedoms in the new Mass but there is much talk coming from the Vatican that this should be returned to more Traditional teaching. I do understand the use of Extraordinary Mministers in Masses where there is too many people for the serving priest to be able to attend to, or in emergency situations (like soldiers preparing for battle, refugee camps, etc.), but the role has been expanded too greatly and does not serve it's original purpose.


When I think of the messages of Fatima, and how there would be changes in the church that are not in keeping with Church traditions, I think of this.

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said: I do understand the use of Extraordinary Mministers in Masses where there is too many p...
(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said:

I do understand the use of Extraordinary Mministers in Masses where there is too many people for the serving priest to be able to attend to, or in emergency situations (like soldiers preparing for battle, refugee camps, etc.), but the role has been expanded too greatly and does not serve it's original purpose.


--hide--


Of all the points you made this is the only one I disagree with. There is no such thing as "too many people" for a Priest to be able to serve. It's also the primary excuse those who endorse the use of Extraordinary Ministers in this manner.


The only proper role of the Extraordinary Minister is to fill the role of a Priest in administering the Holy Eucharist when an ordained Priest is not able or available, not to fill the role as a matter of convenience. When a Priest is present, he is the only proper administer of the Host. Anyone else who handles and/or administers the Host in the presence of a Priest commits a sacrilege, regardless of the protestations of the Church's heirarchy.


theheart

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: I'm sure a number of CMers will answer your question. I would like to hear an explanation on ...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said: I'm sure a number of CMers will answer your question.

I would like to hear an explanation on why it would be considered "sinful" to handle the Body of Christ when (my understanding is) our goal is to be united with Him, and receiving Communion (correctly) means we are in a state of grace--that is, our sins are forgiven and nothing is a barrier between ourselves and God?

I'm not being sarcastic or what-have-you with my question. I simply don't understand the basis for your statement, Gabor.
--hide--

Lina, this lengthy article may help: www.ewtn.com

by Peter A. Kwasniewski is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the International Theological Institute in Gaming, Austria. 2000/2002

It summarizes the min points of 6 Church Documents from the Popes concerning Extraordinary Ministers: Fidei custos (1969), Immensae caritatis (1973), Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist (1973), Dominicae coenae (1980), Inaestimabile donum (1980), On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful (1977).

Some quotes taken from the article as a whole:

"The central point is well established: lay ministers of the Eucharist (including the "acolytes" mentioned here3) receive the name "extraordinary" precisely because they are to be used only in extraordinary cases of urgent necessity, when no other sacred minister is readily available. The priests and deacons remain, as always, the ordinary ministers."

DC, 1980: "... one must not forget the primary office of priests, who have been consecrated by their ordination to represent Christ the Priest: for this reason their hands, like their words and their will, have become the direct instruments of Christ. Through this fact, that is, as ministers of the Holy Eucharist, they have a primary responsibility for the sacred species, because it is a total responsibility: they offer the bread and wine, they consecrate it, and then distribute the sacred species to the participants in the assembly who wish to receive them. Deacons can only bring to the altar the offerings of the faithful and, once they have been consecrated by the priest, distribute them, How eloquent therefore, even if not of ancient custom, is the rite of the anointing of the hands in our Latin ordination, as though precisely for these hands a special grace and power of the Holy Spirit is necessary! To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist.4"

OCQRTCOFTNOF, 1997: "§2. Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion. They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there areparticularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. This function is supplementary and extraordinary and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law." (Victor, this last quote should provide your answer.)



LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Victor-544727 said: Of all the points you made this is the only one I disagree with. There is ...
(Quote) Victor-544727 said:


Of all the points you made this is the only one I disagree with. There is no such thing as "too many people" for a Priest to be able to serve. It's also the primary excuse those who endorse the use of Extraordinary Ministers in this manner.


The only proper role of the Extraordinary Minister is to fill the role of a Priest in administering the Holy Eucharist when an ordained Priest is not able or available, not to fill the role as a matter of convenience. When a Priest is present, he is the only proper administer of the Host. Anyone else who handles and/or administers the Host in the presence of a Priest commits a sacrilege, regardless of the protestations of the Church's heirarchy.

--hide--


Victor, there are Masses with many thousands of people attending such as at St. Peter's Basilica and other Basilicas in Rome during celebrations, WYD, and other celebrations during feast days celebrated around the world. The above post has a quote to defend this statement.

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said: Lina, this lengthy article may help: www.ewtn.com.
(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said:

Lina, this lengthy article may help: www.ewtn.com

by Peter A. Kwasniewski is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the International Theological Institute in Gaming, Austria. 2000/2002

It summarizes the min points of 6 Church Documents from the Popes concerning Extraordinary Ministers: Fidei custos (1969), Immensae caritatis (1973), Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist (1973), Dominicae coenae (1980), Inaestimabile donum (1980), On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful (1977).

Some quotes taken from the article as a whole:

"The central point is well established: lay ministers of the Eucharist (including the "acolytes" mentioned here3) receive the name "extraordinary" precisely because they are to be used only in extraordinary cases of urgent necessity, when no other sacred minister is readily available. The priests and deacons remain, as always, the ordinary ministers."

DC, 1980: "... one must not forget the primary office of priests, who have been consecrated by their ordination to represent Christ the Priest: for this reason their hands, like their words and their will, have become the direct instruments of Christ. Through this fact, that is, as ministers of the Holy Eucharist, they have a primary responsibility for the sacred species, because it is a total responsibility: they offer the bread and wine, they consecrate it, and then distribute the sacred species to the participants in the assembly who wish to receive them. Deacons can only bring to the altar the offerings of the faithful and, once they have been consecrated by the priest, distribute them, How eloquent therefore, even if not of ancient custom, is the rite of the anointing of the hands in our Latin ordination, as though precisely for these hands a special grace and power of the Holy Spirit is necessary! To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist.4"

OCQRTCOFTNOF, 1997: "§2. Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion. They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there areparticularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. This function is supplementary and extraordinary and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law." (Victor, this last quote should provide your answer.)

--hide--
Rosanna, thank you for your reply and your help! "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained" is something I can get my mind around.

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: One of the things that drove me to attend the Traditional Latin Mass was that during the average N...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

One of the things that drove me to attend the Traditional Latin Mass was that during the average Novus Ordo Mass there would always be a team of women (not being sexist but women seemed to dominate in this "role" locally) on the Altar distributing Holy Communion. I was told by a couple of people that I knew that I was a "fuddy duddy" for always going to the Communion line of the priest.

My understanding is that the priest is acting persona Christi and providing us with the Body of Christ on behalf of Jesus himself so those without consecrated hands should never handle the Bread from Heaven. I know that is the view of Traditional Catholics and former Church teaching for many centuries until the 1970's. It seems common on the Catholic Singles web sites for women to write with some pride about being Eucharistic Ministers as part of their "Catholic activities". There are some (including myself) who would consider it to be sinful to handle the Body of Christ.

I am intrigued about what priests tell would be EM's in the process of recruiting them? Are there any EM's out there who could share what they have been taught and why they consider it appropriate to perform that role?

--hide--
I go straight for the priest who has been ordained and keep my hands folded in reverance. I know of some very good EMs and some questionable ones too. I am with you Gabor.

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: I know that is the view of Traditional Catholics and former Church teaching for many centuries un...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

I know that is the view of Traditional Catholics and former Church teaching for many centuries until the 1970's. It seems common on the Catholic Singles web sites for women to write with some pride about being Eucharistic Ministers as part of their "Catholic activities". There are some (including myself) who would consider it to be sinful to handle the Body of Christ.

--hide--


Gabor, having again read the article link I posted, it seems that according to 6 papal encyclicals since 1969, the traditions of the church have not changed much. It is local bishops who have taken the teachings too liberally about Extraordinary Ministers and about Communion in the hand. It looks like Rome has clearly stated their position and it has not been followed by local church leaders. Rome will be dealing with these issues soon, though PK ccomments that changes even to traditional norms take long in the church.

LOCKED
Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: Rosanna, thank you for your reply and your help! "To touch the sacred species and to distribu...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said:

Rosanna, thank you for your reply and your help! "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained" is something I can get my mind around.

--hide--


Glad I could help. God bless!

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