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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Linda-624584 said: Didn't realize that as an EME I've offended so many.
(Quote) Linda-624584 said:

Didn't realize that as an EME I've offended so many.

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Linda -- you didn't need to become an EME to offend so many..... laughing

Per a previous post, it's an honor and privilege to serve as an EME. It's truly a special service you are performing and you certainly don't have to defend or apologize for it. It is allowed in the US by Rome and that should be the end to others' arguments against it. We need to consider where the problem actually lies. hug

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: I'm wondering the same thing, Lina. Back in the 1970's, permission was granted from Rome to...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

I'm wondering the same thing, Lina. Back in the 1970's, permission was granted from Rome to allow Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, more commonly but incorrectly referred to as Eucharistic Ministers. (I think that title was instilled for the sake of brevity.) Those who are selected or volunteer to serve in this capacity are to be thankful and thanked. It's an honor and privilege to serve. Priests are men who have had had their entire beings (not just their hands) consecrated by bishops. Permission was granted not only to use "EM's", but for the laity to receive the Body of Christ in their hands. It this practice came into being because of the actions of a Pope, that should eliminate the doubt about the validity of the use of Extraordinary Ministers. To believe that this action is sinful is contrary to the Church teachings about the Eucharist.

Anyone who serves in this capacity serves the Church and fellow parishioners, and it shows a special dedication to the Eucharist, therefore making it worthy of mention in a profile. It is definitely NOT a negative factor.

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An Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of the Priest -

LIBRERIA EDITRICE VATICANA
VATICAN CITY 1997


Article 8


§ 2. Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion.(99) They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. (100)

This function is supplementary and extraordinary (101) and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law. It is thus useful for the diocesan bishop to issue particular norms concerning extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion which, in complete harmony with the universal law of the Church, should regulate the exercise of this function in his diocese. Such norms should provide, amongst other things, for matters such as the instruction in eucharistic doctrine of those chosen to be extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the meaning of the service they provide, the rubrics to be observed, the reverence to be shown for such an august Sacrament and instruction concerning the discipline on admission to Holy Communion.

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:

— extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants;

— association with the renewal of promises made by priests at the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday, as well as other categories of faithful who renew religious vows or receive a mandate as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion;

— the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of "a great number of the faithful"


Source - www.vatican.va


theheart

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: I'm wondering the same thing, Lina. Back in the 1970's, permission was granted from Rome to...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

I'm wondering the same thing, Lina. Back in the 1970's, permission was granted from Rome to allow Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, more commonly but incorrectly referred to as Eucharistic Ministers. (I think that title was instilled for the sake of brevity.) Those who are selected or volunteer to serve in this capacity are to be thankful and thanked. It's an honor and privilege to serve. Priests are men who have had had their entire beings (not just their hands) consecrated by bishops. Permission was granted not only to use "EM's", but for the laity to receive the Body of Christ in their hands. It this practice came into being because of the actions of a Pope, that should eliminate the doubt about the validity of the use of Extraordinary Ministers. To believe that this action is sinful is contrary to the Church teachings about the Eucharist.

Anyone who serves in this capacity serves the Church and fellow parishioners, and it shows a special dedication to the Eucharist, therefore making it worthy of mention in a profile. It is definitely NOT a negative factor.

--hide--



Ray,

The term "Eucharistic Ministers" was coined not for brevity ("Eucharistic" is only one syllable shorter than "Extraordinary"), but because everyone and their brother-in-law recognized that these "Eucharistic Ministers" were no longer being used as "Extraordinary Ministers," which is how the Church intended for them to be used. As you know, an "extraordinary" incident is an exception; these "Eucharistic Ministers" are being used every week or every day, even when there are priests on the premises. This is an abuse. Most of us here can recognize that when a practice is carried out beyond the parameters which the Church intended, that constitutes an abuse. Where the Pope has given an inch, the Catholics in this country have taken a yard. You are pointing to the Pope's approval of the inch given (but ignoring the yard taken) with your endorsement of the practice. I am simply pointing out to you that the yard taken was never the Pope's intent.

I believe most of these "Eucharistic Ministers" mean no harm at all; they are acting out of ignorance. In fact, I am sure that there are some of them on this site who don't even know that the Church's term is actually "Extraordinary Ministers" and not "Eucharistic Ministers." They don't know this because like most Catholics in this country, they haven't been trained in what Catholicism means. Unfortunately, if they don't pick up books or find orthodox priests, it will be very difficult for them to understand what Catholicism really means.

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Dave-24315 said: I am not a fan of these, I have seen extraordinary ministers give out Holy Communion while the vis...
(Quote) Dave-24315 said:

I am not a fan of these, I have seen extraordinary ministers give out Holy Communion while the visiting priest were sitting, and they weren't real happy and I wasn't either.

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Dave,

Isn't that preposterous? If you were a non-Catholic attending Mass that day for the first time and saw your local real estate agent or schoolteacher giving out Holy Communion while a priest was sitting down near the altar, would you think for a minute that there was anything special about the Host that was being distributed?

This is why Pope Benedict is trying to reverse these abuses; as the rest of society collapses around us, a laity confused about the Divine Presence is not going to be in a position to set an example for an increasingly pagan world.

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: I was just asking someone about this today -- if it is so very wrong, why is it so prevalent in ...
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

I was just asking someone about this today -- if it is so very wrong, why is it so prevalent in so many churches? I was told it is not wrong at all and it is more like veiling for women -- a matter of personal calling. How can so many good and faithful priests allow EMHE if it is so against church teaching?

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In a word, Rachel: pressure.


I think the practice has been going on for so long that it will take something in writing from a superior for the priest to tell his "Eucharistic Ministers," : "Hey, it's not me saying this; look here. It's from the bishop (or pope). I have no choice."

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: In a word, Rachel: pressure. I think the practice has been going on for...
(Quote) William-607613 said:




In a word, Rachel: pressure.


I think the practice has been going on for so long that it will take something in writing from a superior for the priest to tell his "Eucharistic Ministers," : "Hey, it's not me saying this; look here. It's from the bishop (or pope). I have no choice."

--hide--


See 3 posts up... it has already been said.


theheart

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: Excuse me, William, but I don't see the connection you are trying to make. As part of the litur...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

Excuse me, William, but I don't see the connection you are trying to make. As part of the liturgy, the priest is supposed to say prayers and perform actions in a specific way. The priest is involved in the consecration of the hosts; extraordinary ministers are involved in the disiposition of consecrated hosts. There's a vast difference in their roles.

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The reason the priest could not touch anything with his thumb and forefinger after the Consecration was because the thumb and forefinger were the two parts of his body that touched the Sacred Host.

A priest who assisted at Mass in the distribution of Holy Communion (but who was not present during the Consecration) would also keep his forefinger and thumb pressed together, also because they had touched the Host. (I see this constantly at the Latin Mass.) The Consecrated Host is the reason for this action, whether or not the priest holding It actually performed the Consecration.

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Victor-544727 said: See 3 posts up... it has already been said.
(Quote) Victor-544727 said:

See 3 posts up... it has already been said.

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Rachel, Linda and Ray:


Victor posted a quote from one enclyclical that clearly spells things out. I posted an article on the first page of this thread from EWTN that mentions 6 encyclicals since 1969 that deal specifically with this. All of these encyclicals should be available on the Vatican website. The information is clearly stated and out there for those who want to learn more about this issue.

"Lina, this lengthy article may help: http://www.ewtn.com

by Peter A. Kwasniewski is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the International Theological Institute in Gaming, Austria. 2000/2002

It summarizes the min points of 6 Church Documents from the Popes concerning Extraordinary Ministers: Fidei custos (1969), Immensae caritatis (1973), Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist (1973), Dominicae coenae (1980), Inaestimabile donum (1980), On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful (1997)."

What is going on in the western church, is a too liberal interpretation of what was allowed for Extraordinary Ministers, and as it is currently practiced, it constitutes and abuse. I don't judge those who act in these roles as I believe they do so with the intention of wanting to serve in the church. However, once the true church teaching is made known, many limit themselves in this role, realizing that their participation is problematic. We can debate all we want about what we think about this, but 6 papal encyclicals have clearly defined this role and its usage in the Holy Mass.

LOCKED
Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: Ray,The term "Eucharistic Ministers" was coined not for brevity (...
(Quote) William-607613 said:




Ray,

The term "Eucharistic Ministers" was coined not for brevity ("Eucharistic" is only one syllable shorter than "Extraordinary"), but because everyone and their brother-in-law recognized that these "Eucharistic Ministers" were no longer being used as "Extraordinary Ministers," which is how the Church intended for them to be used. As you know, an "extraordinary" incident is an exception; these "Eucharistic Ministers" are being used every week or every day, even when there are priests on the premises. This is an abuse. Most of us here can recognize that when a practice is carried out beyond the parameters which the Church intended, that constitutes an abuse. Where the Pope has given an inch, the Catholics in this country have taken a yard. You are pointing to the Pope's approval of the inch given (but ignoring the yard taken) with your endorsement of the practice. I am simply pointing out to you that the yard taken was never the Pope's intent.

I believe most of these "Eucharistic Ministers" mean no harm at all; they are acting out of ignorance. In fact, I am sure that there are some of them on this site who don't even know that the Church's term is actually "Extraordinary Ministers" and not "Eucharistic Ministers." They don't know this because like most Catholics in this country, they haven't been trained in what Catholicism means. Unfortunately, if they don't pick up books or find orthodox priests, it will be very difficult for them to understand what Catholicism really means.

--hide--
I think you are doing a disservice to those who serve as EME's, especially by saying they are acting out of ignorance. This is demeaning and insulting to those who perform this special service to Our Lord. I can't speak for all EME's, but locally, they are trained, they have the process explained to them, including the background about how this came to be.

We have two priests saying 6 weekend Masses at our cluster parish group (3 parishes). Sometimes they arrive just 2 minutes before a Mass at one of the other Churches in this cluster group. Imagine how much time they would need if they would personally distribute the hosts to more than 200 recipients at each Mass. The Church allows for this, and I don't see it as abuse, nor have their been complaints about this. As a parish council member, I do receive comments, suggestions and opinions from many parishioners, none of whom have ever complained about our procedures. The priests are running ragged.

I certainly don't see any of our EME's acting out of ignorance and would appreciate any allusion to that effect be excluded from any dialogue about them. Especially at this time of the year, we should instead be grateful for their help. I know the overworked priests appreciate their service.

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Dec 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said: Rachel, Linda and Ray: Victor posted a quote from one enclyclical that clearly spell...
(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said:

Rachel, Linda and Ray:


Victor posted a quote from one enclyclical that clearly spells things out. I posted an article on the first page of this thread from EWTN that mentions 6 encyclicals since 1969 that deal specifically with this. All of these encyclicals should be available on the Vatican website. The information is clearly stated and out there for those who want to learn more about this issue.

"Lina, this lengthy article may help: http://www.ewtn.com

by Peter A. Kwasniewski is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the International Theological Institute in Gaming, Austria. 2000/2002

It summarizes the min points of 6 Church Documents from the Popes concerning Extraordinary Ministers: Fidei custos (1969), Immensae caritatis (1973), Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist (1973), Dominicae coenae (1980), Inaestimabile donum (1980), On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful (1997)."

What is going on in the western church, is a too liberal interpretation of what was allowed for Extraordinary Ministers, and as it is currently practiced, it constitutes and abuse. I don't judge those who act in these roles as I believe they do so with the intention of wanting to serve in the church. However, once the true church teaching is made known, many limit themselves in this role, realizing that their participation is problematic. We can debate all we want about what we think about this, but 6 papal encyclicals have clearly defined this role and its usage in the Holy Mass.

--hide--


I just realized the link I provided was shortened only to show the EWTN homepage. www.ewtn.com

Go to EWTN > library > liturgy >EXTRMIN.HTM or google EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF THE EUCHARIST Peter A. Kwasniewski

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