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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today? theheart

12/31/2012 new

(Quote) John-135561 said: I...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?

--hide--


Why take the moral inventory of others? God doesn't call you or me to do that. God calls us to be holy ourselves. Personally I'm glad that one woman you called a "hypocrite" comes to Church every Sunday after her wild Saturday.. There's still hope for her.


Remember the parable Jesus tells in the Gospel of Luke:


He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Lk 18:9-14)


Think about this.


There willalways be sin in the world. There will always be falsely devout people. Our job is to be holy because it is only by being holy that we finction as leaven and salt in the world. Finger-pointing, fault-finding, and judging won't bring you or me or anyone else closer to Christ. But living well ourselves and treating allwith love and dignity will accomplish much.



12/31/2012 new

(Quote) John-135561 said: I...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?

--hide--

To be a virtuous woman now, as at any other point in history, is to do exactly what Christ tells us to do. No matter our pasts, He tells us to "God and sin no more" to "cast not the first stone" to rely on Him completely as the birds of the air and the lilies of the field. To be a virtuous person is to strive follow Christ in all ways. Are there days we will not succeed? Yes. Are there people who misunderstand or pick and choose their own morality? Yes. Virtue is a gift of God and only something we can strive to practice and pray for more of that we might become holy as Christ is holy. God loves us completely and it is His standard we have to live up to, not our own in spite of what society tells us about moral relativity.

12/31/2012 new

*"Go and sin no more"* Sorry for the typos I need to re-read my posts better!

12/31/2012 new

(Quote) John-135561 said: I...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.





So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?

--hide--


John, I totally get what you are saying. Pray for her; perhaps she is in a lot of pain but, hopefully, she will change her behavior. I am going to switch this to a man who acts as she does. Besides praying for him, the question here would be, with whom do I choose to spend my time? I would not have as a companion, a man who is behaving that way. It would be an occasion of sin for me and the perception of my intentions while with him could be a problem. I value a state of grace and a good reputation. It is not my job in life to assist him in changing his ways except by prayer and example and, of course, kindness. Again though, he will not be my date or companion.


A virtuous woman loves God. herself and her dignity and loves others. I believe my first paragraph fits with this description.

12/31/2012 new

(Quote) John-135561 said: I...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?

--hide--
Ultimately, who is the one who has to answer for what she is doing and what she has done? You? Nope. Her? Yup.

If it weren't for sin, there wouldn't be a need for churches. Even if her thinking process seems to be flawed, we don't really know her state of mind.

You seem to be in a position to be a positive influence in her life, and I hope you're using it to her advantage. As David said, the fact she is attending Mass means there is hope for her. There is at least a spark of spirituality -- perhaps more intense than you know.

Perhaps you can guide her to your pastor or a spiritual advisor, and personally offer prayerful support.

You also mention that you have been out with her several times. If you accompanied her to wholesome activities on a Saturday evening (strictly in friendship), would she gradually see there are more worthwhile things to do?

Just a few random thoughts, John.

As for the group, it seems it's badly needed, but some solid leadership would help.

A belated welcome to the CM forums, John. We're glad to have you aboard and hope you will return often with your thoughts and ideas.

12/31/2012 new

John, a woman of virtue is one who lives God's commands. They are many, and few, depending on how you look at it. Some women do better than others. Some's sin is more public than others.

There are many virtuous women, truly virtuous, in the world and on CM. Seek out their company if the company of this woman bothers you.

And I would suggest giving up worrying about what others think of who you keep company with.

Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors. And he explained why he did it. He ministered to the sinners, and used his being with them to teach others about sin and charity. Maybe you could consider doing the same. It might be a powerful witness.

12/31/2012 new

This happens at my church too -- people we know have been publically sinning on Saturday night and then unrepentantly serving as lectors, etc and publically receiving the Holy Eucharist the next morning when there has been no time for confession and it happens every week so there is no repentance in actions -- these are stumbling blocks for many people as they watch the hypocracy and question their faith in God and our Church. Yes, our church is a hospital for sinners, but many people 'refuse treatment' other than a quick bandaid for appearancessake.


A virtuous person puts more thought and effort into pleasing God and trying to follow the commandments and live as Christ, loving our neighbors wherever and whenever we find them.

12/31/2012 new

(Quote) John-135561 said: I...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.

The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?

--hide--

John, it is unfortunately not a rare situation that you will find real confusion about what is considered virtuous, and I think a lot of this confusion stems from the relativistic culture we live in where being a "good person" has been reinterpreted as being "nice" or "tolerant" rather than trustworthy or moral.

I think it is also a result of the poor catechesis that people received growing up. My parents taught me what it meant to be a trustworthy, moral person; I unfortunately didn't learn it in Catholic school. This is actually the reason I decided on the career of teaching the Catholic Faith in the high school setting - I wanted kids to learn the things about our beautiful Catholic Faith that I didn't learn in the school classroom. So for those who accepted the confusing, relativistic teachings they learned in religion classes and didn't talk about these things with their parents, they are acting according to what they know. And because the structures that reninforced that sinful behavior was socially unacceptable are no longer present in our culture, they are able to live with the delusion that they are good because they are "nice." It is a sad situation, because they have been deprived of experiencing the beauty of living a life based on trust, mutual respect and a belief in the dignity of the human person! You'd think that at some point they'd notice the sadness that accompanies such behavior and be inspired to look for another way...but such is the state of the human soul. Perhaps your kind witness will stir in them the reminder of their dignity. That's why I love teaching the Faith - young people WANT to be good and want to know the truth that leads to happiness! They just need someone who is trustworthy and loves them - loves their souls - and is not afraid to tell them that TRUTH EXISTS and it is BEAUTIFUL!

And you are right about the judgment thing - we are not to judge others in terms of their motives, assuming the reason why they do something; but we do need to recognize when a person is not acting in a trustworthy, respectful way and realize there is a problem. And unfortunately what it means is that we have to move on from this person we thought was promising if they have no desire to change their behavior. Such is the state of affairs in our broken world. I pray that you find a woman who is worthy of your respect and recognizes the treasure that you are! God bless!

12/31/2012 new
(Quote) John-135561 said: I hear of women...
(Quote) John-135561 said:

I hear of women not being able to find a good man, but sometimes a person needs to look in the mirror. I have met and have many female friends. I have asked them this question, but I thought I would posted it here has well. What does it mean to be a woman of virtue in today's society? Has I had stated in other posts, I started with a few people a singles group at my church a few years back. The experience, almost made me and a few others want to leave the Church, but Jesus warns us of just such behavior, especially in the Parable of the Weeds.



The hypocrisy was particular high in one older female who would go to the local night club on Saturday and show up on Sunday Mass after having a one night stands. She would do this basically almost every weekend. I heard this from other members, and I was out with her several times and was stopped or seen by people who knew me or her, who basically said, what was a man of my character doing being out with someone like her? This older woman saw it has her right, frankly I was disgusted after finding out. She saw herself has a virtuous woman, needless to say myself and many others did not. Many of the others were not Catholic, or even Christian, it was an Atheist friend who confronted and consoled me on the matter. I use this only has an example from my experience.

Yes, I know the old line of, "Judge not least you be judged", but get it theologically correct. God does not call us not to judge. He knows we are judgmental creatures, how else would we be able to tell right from wrong, good from evil? Alcoholics use the same line, when someone tells them they have a drinking problem? It’s in the second part, “that the measure we measure others by we will also be measured by ourselves. In short, do not be a hypocrite.


So, what does it mean to be a virtuous woman in America soceity today?



--hide--


You know the story of the woman caught in adultery wasn't just about her behavior, but the indignant arrogant behavior of those who caught her. Remember specifically the words ,"this woman was caught IN THE VERY ACT" tells me she was set up. Where was the man she was caught with? Why is it he gets a pass and she was brought before Jesus? Keep in mind, Jesus didn't just stumble upon this scene. So read it from this perspective. Now apply it to your situation with this woman. The snickering comments about why someone with your stellar morals would be seen with some one like hers. The gossiping in your parish reminds me of the bystanders in that Gospel passage. Since you had been out with her you were obviously a friend in some way. Rather than throw her to the wolves, why didn't you take the opportunity to exercise one of the spiritual works of mercy? You may have been the one person of high moral character (like Jesus) who could have shown her compassion, you could have gently mentioned that people were saying awful things about her, but you know that we all need a savior. You could have gently spoken about her dignity and her place of honor as a daughter of the Most High God. People who are in a state of rebellion can only be reached when there is nothing to rebel against. Showing her God's love breaks down the barriers that keep her from a full life with God.

So John , while a virtuous woman tries to live her life in accordance with God's law and love (which includes the spiritual and corporal works of mercy), a virtuous man should too. It is in the situations we find ourselves, that we use as an occasion for exercising love.
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