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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Jan 1st 2013 new

Okay time to answer! First of all Patrick you make a good point. I agree with you that our choice for a spouse is not sinful but the exercise of free will. But as Andrea picked up on in spite of my muddled statement about it, that is exactly my point. I don't think there is "one person" that God puts in my life and if I miss him I have thwarted His will. In fact I think that this idea that we have to find "the one" has made the decision for marriage a lot more difficult for a lot of people and is probably why many have hesitated in choosing a spouse because they have a misguided (and overly romantic) view that the person they marry must fulfill every desire and expectation they have. The fact is, only GOD can do that! People are expecting from another frail human being something they can only find in God. It would make it a lot easier to find a spouse if instead of asking, "Is this the one?" they would ask, "Is this someone whom I can grow with, who respects me and I can communicate with so that we can get each other to heaven?" A marriage based on these questions is much more likely to succeed because the expectations are based in reality rather than on a conflated romantic concept. Think of all the successful arranged marriages in history - on no level can we say that this was part of God's ordained plan. But we can say as Scripture does, "God works all things to the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose." Rom 8:28. God will teach you how to LOVE no matter who your spouse is, or what your vocation in life is.

However, I would maintain as Elizabeth states that to thwart God's will is a sin. And just to clarify, God's will as I understand it is not so specific as our choice of a spouse, but His will is always ordered to the Good, to Truth and to Love. If we freely choose against these things with full knowledge of what we are choosing against then we have knowingly contravened God's law of LOVE, which is a rejection of His will for us.

I think the danger of such a black and white view of God's will, that we would think that God has a very rigid map for our lives that we must discover with our limited abilities, is that it doesn't respect another aspect of who God is - and that is that God is Eternal and not subject to time. Meaning that God exists in an "Eternal Now" and sees our lives - past, present and future - in that Eternal Now. Essentially when we say that it's "God's will" for us to marry a specific person, that is a notion akin to predestination, an idea that originated in the philosophy of nominalism and gained a foothold in the Christian world in the Protestant Reformation.

Jan 1st 2013 new

And one more thing - when people state that in order to fulfill "God's will" we can't have so many expectations that we rule out tons of people who could be a good match, a better way to say it would be that we shouldn't have so many expectations because expectations are not based in reality. Some of our expectations are an attempt to control the future (like trying to marry a much younger woman solely because the odds are better for having children - no one is guaranteed to be able to conceive), or are based on false concepts that a frail human person can't meet, and sometimes are indications of a lack of self-knowledge (perhaps we cannot attract the type of person we expect to marry and are ignoring those might be most compatible).

Looking forward to some lively debate!

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: And one more thing - when people state that in order to fulfill "God's will" we c...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:

And one more thing - when people state that in order to fulfill "God's will" we can't have so many expectations that we rule out tons of people who could be a good match, a better way to say it would be that we shouldn't have so many expectations because expectations are not based in reality. Some of our expectations are an attempt to control the future (like trying to marry a much younger woman solely because the odds are better for having children - no one is guaranteed to be able to conceive), or are based on false concepts that a frail human person can't meet, and sometimes are indications of a lack of self-knowledge (perhaps we cannot attract the type of person we expect to marry and are ignoring those might be most compatible).

Looking forward to some lively debate!

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I agree with this and your above post 100%. I think it's important to seek God's will, but that implies actively looking for it, not passively sitting in your house and hoping He drops a neon sign in your lap lighting the way! To actively seek God's will implies prayer, but also going out with people, learning what you like and dislike, learning about the true nature of marriage, and if that is where you feel called, taking steps to make that happen. It cannot and should not be an excuse to shut people out or drag your feet with making a decision.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Andrea-368827 said: I don't think that is what Kristen is saying. God did not chose a person for yo...
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said:


I don't think that is what Kristen is saying. God did not chose a person for you. God's will for you is to love. I think that is what she saying.

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That is exactly what I was saying Andrea!

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-235584 said: when an act of evil is done, when we have a free will to do otherwise, YES, this is a ...
(Quote) Patrick-235584 said:

when an act of evil is done, when we have a free will to do otherwise, YES, this is a sin, however, in not doing something evil, (choosing someone for us, instead of someone God had planned for us) is not a sin, it's siimply using the free will that GOD gave to us. I"m sorry Elizabeth, I"m not going against him in defiance, nor in doing an evil act to ridicule him, I would simply be using the tools he gave each and every one of us. If this were the case, there would be no such thing as a free will, we would all be subjected to predestination, and I'm pretty sure the church wasnt' to hip on that subject.

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I agree with Patrick. Say I were to choose the priesthood when God created me to get married, or the other way around. Both are holy and beautiful choices, so maybe I am not doing exactly what God created me to do. Yhat doesn't mean I wont receive blessings and graces from God

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Mark-495813 said: I agree with Patrick. Say I were to choose the priesthood when God created m...
(Quote) Mark-495813 said:


I agree with Patrick. Say I were to choose the priesthood when God created me to get married, or the other way around. Both are holy and beautiful choices, so maybe I am not doing exactly what God created me to do. Yhat doesn't mean I wont receive blessings and graces from God

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I am in agreement as well!

Jan 1st 2013 new

That does mean...*


I should add I dont believe in the whole soul mate one person created for you to marry idea.

Jan 1st 2013 new

That does mean...*


I should add I dont believe in the whole soul mate one person created for you to marry idea.

Jan 1st 2013 new

That does mean...*


I should add I dont believe in the whole soul mate one person created for you to marry idea.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Mark-495813 said: That does mean...* I should add I dont believe in the whole soul mate one person create...
(Quote) Mark-495813 said:

That does mean...*


I should add I dont believe in the whole soul mate one person created for you to marry idea.

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It's actually in some ways more romantic from this perspective as what you are saying is that you choose this person out of all the others as your lifelong partner. And more realistic as then you won't be surprised or disillusioned when tough times in the relationship come, but will understand that it doesn't mean that you should look for someone else, hoping they will be "the one," but choose again to grow as a couple. Pretty cool

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