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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Since the other thread (Do men feel we don't need them? www.catholicmatch.com ) got shut down before I had a chance to get responses to my questions...


My question: I just wonder- what sort of guidelines and advice would you give an adult woman who does not WANT to "be the man" and "do it all" but who has no man around to do whatever "man things" you deem inappropriate for her to do? How, when there is no one to fill the man's role, can a woman survive and take care of herself in the world without giving the impression that a manly man is not welcomed in her life?


Patrick-235584 said: does she have a father, a brother, a neighbor, a kid up the street who's cutting grass for 25 bucks? Look, I guess there's a fine line to all this, does she WANT to do everything, or does she HAVE to do everything. If she wants to do everything, then there's no place for men, however, if she has to do everything, find an alternative. Don't try to do it all, to me, and I"m sure to other men, it's very unbecoming for a woman to not show her femininity. Just my thoughts.


My follow-up questions for Patrick and any other men who want to give us gals some feedback:

So in real life, how do you men judge whether or not a woman is doing things because she wants to or she has to? Honest question.


Would you not think well of a woman who finds a fiscally responsible way to manage her household by doing easy things herself when she could have paid a man to do it for her? Honest question. Is experience running an efficient household not a good quality in a future wife and mother?


How can a woman who thinks it's more responsible to fix/do what she can easily fix/do by herself indicate to men that they would still be appreciated and she would quite gladly move over and make room for them in these currently un-filled roles? Honest question.


How many of you men are out there lending your support to single women around you so that they can more easily communicate to other men that they "don't want to do it all"? Honest question.


Would it make a difference if her toolbelt was pink and she was wearing pearl earrings while doing some of these "man-things" for herself? Silly question... based in reality. This is usually what I look like when I am fixin' what needs fixin' where I live. The reliable, affordable neighborhood handyman fairy keeps skipping my house, I have no brothers, my father lives 5 1/2 hours away, I earn a teacher's salary, and I like to save my money for a rainy day so to speak, such as when the big things that are definitely too much for me to handle need fixing/doing, or when my dog has to go to the ridiculously expensive emergency vet at 2 AM, or when I need to help out a friend in a crisis, or when some other sort of unexpected situation requiring money pops up.


01/03/2013 new
I want to know to!!! Waiting for quality answers from the menfolk! :)
01/03/2013 new

I think it depends on the relationship. If it was me, I'd ask the woman to be blunt and just ask me. A friend of mine asked me once if she thought her husband (also a friend) would be upset if she asked him to allow her to go first to Communion because she thought that was the proper way. I told her to just tell him, because knowing him, I knew he'd want to know that.

The key is to allow the men to help. I dated someone once where she would tell me frequently: "You don't have to do that." If I opened the door for her or did the dishes. I'd just tell her: "I know you're perfectly capible of opening a door, I just want to." Or something like that.

Hopefully the people involved are mature enough to not rush to conclusions over things.

01/03/2013 new

So in real life, how do you men judge whether or not a woman is doing things because she wants to or she has to? Honest question.

If she "wants to" or "has to" makes no difference. The way I look at it is like this: If I was looking at this person as a potential spouse, I would want to know what she could survive and care for herself and my family in the event that God forbid something happens to me. And call in professional help for the big stuff...

Would you not think well of a woman who finds a fiscally responsible way to manage her household by doing easy things herself when she could have paid a man to do it for her? Honest question.

I would think well of this person.

Is experience running an efficient household not a good quality in a future wife and mother?

Of course it is! :-)

How can a woman who thinks it's more responsible to fix/do what she can easily fix/do by herself indicate to men that they would still be appreciated and she would quite gladly move over and make room for them in these currently un-filled roles? Honest question.

Say to them: "I prefer to do this easy stuff myself rather than paying someone else. Would you mind fixing the doorhinge while I finish up with the primer coat on the wall? I'll help you with laying tile at your place next weekend if you don't mind an extra pair of hands... With the money we save by doing this ourselves, we can buy some nice box seat tickets at the 50 yard line of the next home game, and the following week go to the symphony... What do you think about that?"

How many of you men are out there lending your support to single women around you so that they can more easily communicate to other men that they "don't want to do it all"? Honest question.

?????

Would it make a difference if her toolbelt was pink and she was wearing pearl earrings while doing some of these "man-things" for herself? Silly question... based in reality. This is usually what I look like when I am fixin' what needs fixin' where I live.

So what do you actually fix that requires a toolbelt? Just curious... Actually, very curious....

The reliable, affordable neighborhood handyman fairy keeps skipping my house, I have no brothers, my father lives 5 1/2 hours away, I earn a teacher's salary, and I like to save my money for a rainy day so to speak, such as when the big things that are definitely too much for me to handle need fixing/doing, or when my dog has to go to the ridiculously expensive emergency vet at 2 AM, or when I need to help out a friend in a crisis, or when some other sort of unexpected situation requiring money pops up.

Wow, that's the loooooongest sentence I have read in quite some time.....


Last point. Men should be insulted if they feel their only contribution is to provide menial labor or money to a relationship. If I'm dating someone that wants some help with painting a wall at her place, then great - let's do that. And she can help me the following week at my place with planting some shrubs in the yard.



01/03/2013 new

Thanks for responding, Ed!

So what do you actually fix that requires a toolbelt? Just curious... Actually, very curious....

Any easy project that requires multiple tools/items, which is not that much. Hanging pictures: measuring tape, nails, pencil, hammer, maybe a little level. I most often wear it when I am killing off the evil plants around my yard because I am carrying things to cut, dig up, and poison different plants as needed, and then I can also hang a collection bag off the tool belt for those evil plants like ivy which will sprout where they lay unless I collect them. The most ambitious thing I probably ever did was repair some damaged roof shingles before a rain storm blew in later in the day, and that required roofing nails, a razor, hammer, pry bar, and cell phone to call the neighbor when I was done so someone could hold the ladder for me when I was climbing down. laughing


I'm sure I could have done it without necessarily wearing the toolbelt, but... it's pink! I think it's cute. It's like playing dress-up for chores! It actually makes the work a bit more fun. And gosh darnit, it sure is handy having lots of pockets and loops! But for simpler jobs I am probably just wearing the pearl earrings and not the tool belt.


Wow, that's the loooooongest sentence I have read in quite some time.....


Brevity in writing is not a strength of mine.



Last point. Men should be insulted if they feel their only contribution is to provide menial labor or money to a relationship. If I'm dating someone that wants some help with painting a wall at her place, then great - let's do that. And she can help me the following week at my place with planting some shrubs in the yard.

I agree. But I hear complaints about those aspects from men and really want to better understand where they are coming from and what causes that feeling of not being needed/wanted so I can avoid it if I can. I am hoping this thread will help men see that sometimes their first impressions of not being needed/wanted are not necessarily correct and help everybody figure out how to better communicate about stuff like this.

01/03/2013 new
(Quote) Laura-896845 said: Thanks for responding, Ed! So what do you actually fix that requires a toolbelt? Just curious.....
(Quote) Laura-896845 said:

Thanks for responding, Ed!

So what do you actually fix that requires a toolbelt? Just curious... Actually, very curious....

Any easy project that requires multiple tools/items, which is not that much. Hanging pictures: measuring tape, nails, pencil, hammer, maybe a little level. I most often wear it when I am killing off the evil plants around my yard because I am carrying things to cut, dig up, and poison different plants as needed, and then I can also hang a collection bag off the tool belt for those evil plants like ivy which will sprout where they lay unless I collect them. The most ambitious thing I probably ever did was repair some damaged roof shingles before a rain storm blew in later in the day, and that required roofing nails, a razor, hammer, pry bar, and cell phone to call the neighbor when I was done so someone could hold the ladder for me when I was climbing down.


I'm sure I could have done it without necessarily wearing the toolbelt, but... it's pink! I think it's cute. It's like playing dress-up for chores! It actually makes the work a bit more fun. And gosh darnit, it sure is handy having lots of pockets and loops! But for simpler jobs I am probably just wearing the pearl earrings and not the tool belt.


Wow, that's the loooooongest sentence I have read in quite some time.....


Brevity in writing is not a strength of mine.



Last point. Men should be insulted if they feel their only contribution is to provide menial labor or money to a relationship. If I'm dating someone that wants some help with painting a wall at her place, then great - let's do that. And she can help me the following week at my place with planting some shrubs in the yard.

I agree. But I hear complaints about those aspects from men and really want to better understand where they are coming from and what causes that feeling of not being needed/wanted so I can avoid it if I can. I am hoping this thread will help men see that sometimes their first impressions of not being needed/wanted are not necessarily correct and help everybody figure out how to better communicate about stuff like this.

--hide--
Cute! I need to get a tool belt!!! Do they come in purple? I'm partial to that color!!!
01/03/2013 new

I think it's important to just be yourself. After-all he's gonna find out soon enough that you are someone who is motivated and independent thinking soon enough.


Case in point. My little sister is very handy- has built fences, a carport, a huge deck , put in sky lights and goodness know what else. She has a tool belt, hard hats, electric saws and loads of other tools. I must say that she has never had any difficulty with having boyfriends or male friends. She's a tiny thing and there are always guy friends who show up to help her out on her various projects; and she is definitely feminine.

01/03/2013 new

Laura,


Love the thread. I don't think "being needed" is all installing shelves and loadng moving trucks (but those are biggies) There is something bigger. Even the "fully complete" woman with a great job, house, activities and friends can make a man feel needed. Listen to him, say you like being around him, invite him along on an activity you like. Actually, I think all you have to do is look at him and flip your hair.

01/03/2013 new

All of this is nice and all, but...


I don't want, nor could ever accept being wanted on the condition that I'm needed. I want and could only accept being needed on the condition that I'm wanted.




Ok... off my soapbox Carry on! biggrin


theheart

01/03/2013 new

My ex married me because he 'needed' me -- he knew I was going to be able to care for all his needs, wants and desires and all the caring, disciplining, teaching, etc of any children we had (as long as he was the breadwinner which he wanted to be so that all the money was 'his' and he could control it all -- another thread, of course), make wonderful healthy meals, rely on no one else to clean house or do laundry or yardwork, etc -- he knew I could and would do it all because I loved him and wanted to make him happy and pleasing him was more important to me than doing things to please me.
He 'needed' a woman to do everything for him that his mother the martyr did for his father the male chauvenist pig.
Let me say, from experience, it is not a good marriage to be 'needed' in stead of loved. It's the other side of the problem.
He showed me he needed me by refusing to do everything you'd think a man would do (he wouldn't put himself out looking for a better paying job than private school teacher because that would be no fun and hard work, and he knew that I was a great penny-pincher and would somehow live on his income providing for all of us, including 6 children, and still have money to spare at the end of the month) and instead saying what he wanted done but that he didn't want to do it, and I'd move heaven and earth to do it for him.
(example: On a 12F winter day, he'd say he wanted his car washed to get the salt off but he was too cold to do it and didn't want to pay anyone -- so I'd don a parka, lined waterproof gloves, and carry a 5 gallon bucket of water out to wash his car with a sponge -- to show my love, to give him his desire, to protect his car from road salt, to save money, to keep the peace)


I gave him everything, because I thought that's how marriage worked -- you do for who you love.


But then I realized as time went on -- he was the only one who got his desires met -- in any real way.


Would a marriage based on how much a woman 'needs' a man be the same -- all onesided??

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