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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: I didn't say it was perfect. I mean look at all the bad doctors giving out pain medicine, but i...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

I didn't say it was perfect. I mean look at all the bad doctors giving out pain medicine, but it might help. Banning some kinds of guns will not work. Could not a doctor stop me from driving a truck if he wants??? Yet it is the law here, your not going to drive without the form filled out. There are a lot of things we need or want to be able to do, that you need a doctors approval for. I think something can be figured out that would be fair, or the Governments going to start taking away peoples guns. Then we are going to have some big problems, if they try to do this.

--hide--

Driving a truck is not a politically disputed issue.

It might help, but more likely it will result in a lot of harm. Is it better to provide a back door that the government can use surreptitiously to deny us access to firearms than to have them attempt to take them out in the open where everyone can see what is going on?

If we learn anything from Obamacare let it be the danger of not thinking through the details before pushing through laws.

 

01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:change the meani Driving a truck is not a politically disputed issue. It might help...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:change the meani

Driving a truck is not a politically disputed issue.

It might help, but more likely it will result in a lot of harm. Is it better to provide a back door that the government can use surreptitiously to deny us access to firearms than to have them attempt to take them out in the open where everyone can see what is going on?

If we learn anything from Obamacare let it be the danger of not thinking through the details before pushing through laws.

--hide--
I know what you are saying Jerry, but, here in NY Governor Cuomo has been spouting his mouth off like he is a preacher. He said everything is on the table even if it means confiscation of certain weapons. The Dem's aren't going to give up on this one. He was on TV screaming at the top of his lungs and saying, You don't need 10 bullet clip to kill a dear.

They are working a false premise on our right to bare arms. The amendment says it's for the people to protect themselves from a tyranny. You know how they do things they build a false narrative to bring to the people and then they run with it, to change the meaning of the right. I think if we don't give them something it's going to get nasty.

There are trying to do the same with our right to practice religion. They are trying to narrow down the right to hunting . This is exactly why our forefathers made this bill of rights. Who knows maybe it's time for a civil war again. God help us ???

01/12/2013 new

Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you.

I've had my fair share of tragedies, and I've helped friends through worse, including many with relatives suffering from mental illness. I takes a lot to disturb me, and an awful lot to sicken me.


This thread -- the conspiracy claims about Adam Lanza's assult last month; the claim that this is a New World Order scam; the suggestion that people involved in the tragedy are actors, or faking, or whatever else; and over all, the denial of human suffering -- all of it sickens me. I'm amazed to see such a discussion here, and I am ashamed to call myself Catholic, seeing people who would be so empty of compassion for grieving families, so quick to label honest people as frauds or villains, and to do so under the aegis of the Holy Church.

I appreciate that a couple of people have suggested that maybe things aren't as clear cut as all that. But I'm here to tell you, that if your thoughts on this tragedy don't begin and end with prayers: for the souls of the children, for their families, for the adults who gave their lives protecting them, and for the Newtown community, you need to think harder about what it means to be a Christian*.


A couple of other notes:


(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: It would only be fair if we have Catholic Priests examine Politicians to determine who is evil,an...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

It would only be fair if we have Catholic Priests examine Politicians to determine who is evil,and therefore fit or not to serve in Government!

--hide--

Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it.

1) "Liberal tribalists?" How about ayone who believes in the sparation of Church and State? That's why we have the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so. Because we don't give one religion dominance over another in this country.

1a) What is a "tribalist"?

2) I am trying to come up with a delicate way to say this. This side of the scandals that have beset the Holy Church in recent years, I don't think that Catholic priests have a very good track record of determining evil within their own ranks. It will take us some time to earn back the trust of the American people; until then, e are the very last group who should be passing judgement on anybody else's moral worth.

Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage wrong. I think it's understandable: Lanza deliberately left false trails, carried the wrong ID, etc. Jerry, I think these were honest mistakes by reporters trying to do their jobs as best they could. Do you think otherwise?

Do you think it would be better for the media to issue a news blackout until every fact was double-checked? That has a certain appeal to it, but I imagine that people would be even more vehement that there was a conspiracy, that the media were keeping facts from the public. Because the media would be doing so.


John-711000, the issue of "crisis actors" is a red herring. Such businesses exist, to train emergency response workers in realistic situations. I've worked in a hospital and seen crisis simulation teams in action. These businesses don't stage mock emergencies for the public. Even during a simulation, they never claim that an actual emergency is going on. They had nothing to do with the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting.

Lord, look over the souls that were taken into Your care that day, and those who remain.


--Still angry, and looking forward to meeting you all under happier circumstances,

Chris


* No seriously. Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

01/12/2013 new
Welcome Chris. Great post!

(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you. I've h...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you.



I've had my fair share of tragedies, and I've helped friends through worse, including many with relatives suffering from mental illness. I takes a lot to disturb me, and an awful lot to sicken me.




This thread -- the conspiracy claims about Adam Lanza's assult last month; the claim that this is a New World Order scam; the suggestion that people involved in the tragedy are actors, or faking, or whatever else; and over all, the denial of human suffering -- all of it sickens me. I'm amazed to see such a discussion here, and I am ashamed to call myself Catholic, seeing people who would be so empty of compassion for grieving families, so quick to label honest people as frauds or villains, and to do so under the aegis of the Holy Church.



I appreciate that a couple of people have suggested that maybe things aren't as clear cut as all that. But I'm here to tell you, that if your thoughts on this tragedy don't begin and end with prayers: for the souls of the children, for their families, for the adults who gave their lives protecting them, and for the Newtown community, you need to think harder about what it means to be a Christian*.




A couple of other notes:






Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it.



1) "Liberal tribalists?" How about ayone who believes in the sparation of Church and State? That's why we have the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so. Because we don't give one religion dominance over another in this country.



1a) What is a "tribalist"?



2) I am trying to come up with a delicate way to say this. This side of the scandals that have beset the Holy Church in recent years, I don't think that Catholic priests have a very good track record of determining evil within their own ranks. It will take us some time to earn back the trust of the American people; until then, e are the very last group who should be passing judgement on anybody else's moral worth.





Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage wrong. I think it's understandable: Lanza deliberately left false trails, carried the wrong ID, etc. Jerry, I think these were honest mistakes by reporters trying to do their jobs as best they could. Do you think otherwise?



Do you think it would be better for the media to issue a news blackout until every fact was double-checked? That has a certain appeal to it, but I imagine that people would be even more vehement that there was a conspiracy, that the media were keeping facts from the public. Because the media would be doing so.




John-711000, the issue of "crisis actors" is a red herring. Such businesses exist, to train emergency response workers in realistic situations. I've worked in a hospital and seen crisis simulation teams in action. These businesses don't stage mock emergencies for the public. Even during a simulation, they never claim that an actual emergency is going on. They had nothing to do with the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting.



Lord, look over the souls that were taken into Your care that day, and those who remain.




--Still angry, and looking forward to meeting you all under happier circumstances,



Chris




* No seriously. Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

--hide--
01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage ...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage wrong. I think it's understandable: Lanza deliberately left false trails, carried the wrong ID, etc. Jerry, I think these were honest mistakes by reporters trying to do their jobs as best they could. Do you think otherwise?

Do you think it would be better for the media to issue a news blackout until every fact was double-checked? That has a certain appeal to it, but I imagine that people would be even more vehement that there was a conspiracy, that the media were keeping facts from the public. Because the media would be doing so.

--hide--

Since you ask: I do think news agencies should have enough professionalism to do at least some fact checking before reporting the rumor of the minute, unless there is a compelling reason such a public safety to get the word out immediately.

That being said... that wasn't what I was suggesting in that response. I was providing examples to contradict the claim that "The media would not report on what they do not know with certainty"

> Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

Thi is a non sequitur, not an valid argument. Different times, different circumstances.

01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you. I've...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you.

I've had my fair share of tragedies, and I've helped friends through worse, including many with relatives suffering from mental illness. I takes a lot to disturb me, and an awful lot to sicken me.


This thread -- the conspiracy claims about Adam Lanza's assult last month; the claim that this is a New World Order scam; the suggestion that people involved in the tragedy are actors, or faking, or whatever else; and over all, the denial of human suffering -- all of it sickens me. I'm amazed to see such a discussion here, and I am ashamed to call myself Catholic, seeing people who would be so empty of compassion for grieving families, so quick to label honest people as frauds or villains, and to do so under the aegis of the Holy Church.

I appreciate that a couple of people have suggested that maybe things aren't as clear cut as all that. But I'm here to tell you, that if your thoughts on this tragedy don't begin and end with prayers: for the souls of the children, for their families, for the adults who gave their lives protecting them, and for the Newtown community, you need to think harder about what it means to be a Christian*.


A couple of other notes:

Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it.

1) "Liberal tribalists?" How about ayone who believes in the sparation of Church and State? That's why we have the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so. Because we don't give one religion dominance over another in this country.

1a) What is a "tribalist"?

2) I am trying to come up with a delicate way to say this. This side of the scandals that have beset the Holy Church in recent years, I don't think that Catholic priests have a very good track record of determining evil within their own ranks. It will take us some time to earn back the trust of the American people; until then, e are the very last group who should be passing judgement on anybody else's moral worth.

Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage wrong. I think it's understandable: Lanza deliberately left false trails, carried the wrong ID, etc. Jerry, I think these were honest mistakes by reporters trying to do their jobs as best they could. Do you think otherwise?

Do you think it would be better for the media to issue a news blackout until every fact was double-checked? That has a certain appeal to it, but I imagine that people would be even more vehement that there was a conspiracy, that the media were keeping facts from the public. Because the media would be doing so.


John-711000, the issue of "crisis actors" is a red herring. Such businesses exist, to train emergency response workers in realistic situations. I've worked in a hospital and seen crisis simulation teams in action. These businesses don't stage mock emergencies for the public. Even during a simulation, they never claim that an actual emergency is going on. They had nothing to do with the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting.

Lord, look over the souls that were taken into Your care that day, and those who remain.


--Still angry, and looking forward to meeting you all under happier circumstances,

Chris


* No seriously. Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

--hide--

I think you've edited out the rest of what I said. There is something we laity can do to find decent men to lead us, even if we're complete atheists (assuming we believe in Natural Law). That thing is to select honest men, which should be easy in our time since every we say is in our permanent record anyway, so our lies will catch up with us. The case of Louie Giglio and the recent rape case in Wierton WV where the hacker collective Anonymous outed people they believed were covering the tracks of those involved.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As an aside, this case is a particularly brutal abuse of a young girl, apparently instigated by her boyfriend as revenge on her. I only mention it to show the impossibility of covering our tracks in this time.

As for priests, well, that has to do partly with the secularist nature of our civilization in the wake of the so-called Enlightenment. When I mean "tribalist", I am talking about the left & right, both of whom accept political premises that are fundimentally at odds with Catholic teaching about proper governance. The main themes are agreed to, but only the "moderate" (Conservatism, paleo-liberal, libertarian) or radical (Fascist, Communist, Nihilistic Anarchy) are the variations.

You might want to read the threat about traditionalist and Monarchy in the Traditionalist and Eastern Catholic forum about that.

01/12/2013 new
(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you. I've h...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you.



I've had my fair share of tragedies, and I've helped friends through worse, including many with relatives suffering from mental illness. I takes a lot to disturb me, and an awful lot to sicken me.




This thread -- the conspiracy claims about Adam Lanza's assult last month; the claim that this is a New World Order scam; the suggestion that people involved in the tragedy are actors, or faking, or whatever else; and over all, the denial of human suffering -- all of it sickens me. I'm amazed to see such a discussion here, and I am ashamed to call myself Catholic, seeing people who would be so empty of compassion for grieving families, so quick to label honest people as frauds or villains, and to do so under the aegis of the Holy Church.



I appreciate that a couple of people have suggested that maybe things aren't as clear cut as all that. But I'm here to tell you, that if your thoughts on this tragedy don't begin and end with prayers: for the souls of the children, for their families, for the adults who gave their lives protecting them, and for the Newtown community, you need to think harder about what it means to be a Christian*.




A couple of other notes:






Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it.



1) "Liberal tribalists?" How about ayone who believes in the sparation of Church and State? That's why we have the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so. Because we don't give one religion dominance over another in this country.



1a) What is a "tribalist"?



2) I am trying to come up with a delicate way to say this. This side of the scandals that have beset the Holy Church in recent years, I don't think that Catholic priests have a very good track record of determining evil within their own ranks. It will take us some time to earn back the trust of the American people; until then, e are the very last group who should be passing judgement on anybody else's moral worth.





Jerry-74383 was bothered that some news agencies got some details about Adam Lanza's rampage wrong. I think it's understandable: Lanza deliberately left false trails, carried the wrong ID, etc. Jerry, I think these were honest mistakes by reporters trying to do their jobs as best they could. Do you think otherwise?



Do you think it would be better for the media to issue a news blackout until every fact was double-checked? That has a certain appeal to it, but I imagine that people would be even more vehement that there was a conspiracy, that the media were keeping facts from the public. Because the media would be doing so.




John-711000, the issue of "crisis actors" is a red herring. Such businesses exist, to train emergency response workers in realistic situations. I've worked in a hospital and seen crisis simulation teams in action. These businesses don't stage mock emergencies for the public. Even during a simulation, they never claim that an actual emergency is going on. They had nothing to do with the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting.



Lord, look over the souls that were taken into Your care that day, and those who remain.




--Still angry, and looking forward to meeting you all under happier circumstances,



Chris




* No seriously. Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

--hide--
Discussing serious holes in the media and government's portrayal of this event does not equate to not having compassion or not being Christian.

By contrast, choosing to believe the media or government's portrayal of this event does not make you more compassionate or more Christian.

Reporter Ben Swann - www.youtube.com

CT. COP on Sandy Hook Inconsistencies: "THINGS DON'T ADD UP www.youtube.com

Sandy Hook's Disappearing Shooter Suspects www.globalresearch.ca
01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you. I've...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Hello. I'm new here. New to on-line dating, to this site, and to most of you.

I've had my fair share of tragedies, and I've helped friends through worse, including many with relatives suffering from mental illness. I takes a lot to disturb me, and an awful lot to sicken me.


This thread -- the conspiracy claims about Adam Lanza's assult last month; the claim that this is a New World Order scam; the suggestion that people involved in the tragedy are actors, or faking, or whatever else; and over all, the denial of human suffering -- all of it sickens me. I'm amazed to see such a discussion here, and I am ashamed to call myself Catholic, seeing people who would be so empty of compassion for grieving families, so quick to label honest people as frauds or villains, and to do so under the aegis of the Holy Church.


* No seriously. Luke 13:4. When asked about the tragedy of the 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell, Jesus didn't suggest it was a conspiracy of the Pharasees, or that maybe they were actors.

--hide--

I don't know where you read about our seeing Sandy Hook as a New World Order scam; the guilty party appears, by all available evidence, to be Lanza himself. Every discussion here has been based on the premise that Lanza was the author of the attack, the appropriate response to it, and the adequacy (or lack thereof) of the direction politics, which is manipulating this for its own ends (and those of the people behind the throne), is going in response to it.

While there is discussion of the Sandy Hook kililngs on other websites suggesting other possiblities, none of it has reached here AFAIK. Can you suggest in what forum that occured?

01/12/2013 new

(Quote) Chris-930705 said: Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it. 1) "...
(Quote) Chris-930705 said:

Steven-706921 agrees, but doesn't think the liberal tribalists will allow it.

1) "Liberal tribalists?" How about ayone who believes in the sparation of Church and State? That's why we have the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so. Because we don't give one religion dominance over another in this country.

1a) What is a "tribalist"?

2) I am trying to come up with a delicate way to say this. This side of the scandals that have beset the Holy Church in recent years, I don't think that Catholic priests have a very good track record of determining evil within their own ranks. It will take us some time to earn back the trust of the American people; until then, e are the very last group who should be passing judgement on anybody else's moral worth.

--hide--

If you would have a problem with Shiite muslim imams interviewing every candidate to determine his or her fitness to hold office, or Bhuddist monks, or Hindu Kali-worshippers, then you should also have a problem with Catholic priests doing so.

If we are Catholics, we believe there is a proper sphere of influence that the Church properly has in Civic life. The idea that the Church should be completely separate from the public square is an idea of the Enlightenment, which understood that the "private judgement" heresy of Luther lead to public chaos and ungovernability by a confessional state, but were unwilling to allow "the Spirit of Rome" (in the words of Hobbes from "Leviathan") to reenter the life of English during the Stuart dynasty of the 17th Century. Under the conception of both, religion was relegated to a private concern that was understood to be underneath the state, and could be redefined by the State for its own concerns.

We see the result of this idea in its chemical purity in China with the "Patriotic Church" which is in schism with Rome, and where Chinese Catholics and their clergy are actively persecuted.

The emptyness and depression of the "therapeutic age," to borrow from the title of the study of sociologist Philip Rieff, is a key feature of our distinegrating culture, and part of the root of the rampages we see in this and other post-Christian societies.

01/12/2013 new

Mary, I know you have a good heart, that you want to obey Christ when He says that He is the Turth and asks you to follow Him. That's to your credit.

But we are asked to be wise in our discernment. That third link begins "It is now beyond question that the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King Jr. all involved patsies, additional gunman and perhaps most importantly, mass media complicity to achieve their political ends." I don't find that source credible. (Incidentally, none of those claims are "beyond question".) Your second link involved an anonymous host interviewing an anonymous guest about anonymous sources. I dont find any reason to find any of that credible.

Some of these sources are quoting WellAware1 as a source. (This is also the site that claims that Walt Disney and Adolph Hitler are characters portrayed by Franklin Roosevelt's son.) I don't consider that credible. (John-711000, that seems to be the original source for the "crisis actors" bit. WellAware1 has been claiming that a secret cabal has been using actors for decades.)

These sources are quoting Florida Atlantic University professor James Tracy, who claims that the kids might not be dead, that the "alleged parents" (that's right, alleged) might be faking, that the medical examiner might be fake. That's despicable, and hurtful. And completely devoid of sympathy for the families.

Anybody who runs with the conspiracy theories, doesn't have to grieve with the families, 'cause it's all a big hoax. The 'skeptic' doesn't have to pray for the repose of the kids, 'cause they're probably not even dead. He doesn't have to work for justice, to make sure this doesn't happen again, because it might not have happened in the first place. His focus goes to the reporters (several of whom wept on the scene) and the cops and the teachers who comforted the kids, and then makes them "the media" and "the government" and, again, not worthy of sympathy or prayer. The conspiracy theorist get a pass on every act of charity.

Real people died. Real families are torn apart and in desperate need of the healing love of Jesus. Real evil happened. Choosing to deny that *does* make someone less compassionate.

I haven't been around here for more than a week. Is there anything that Catholic Match does, that *we* do as a community, to reach out to the suffering and bereft?

--Chris

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