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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Jan 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: I know who H8 was I live in his kingdom. What you say is partially correct but not tot...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

I know who H8 was I live in his kingdom. What you say is partially correct but not totally accurate. H8 did want a divorce, in fact he wanted 4. The first Catherine of Arogon mother of Mary I, was granted by the Pope on the grounds of lack of a male heir, which was always the fault of the woman never the King. The King then needed a new dalliance to produce an heir, que his mistress Anne Bolyen the mother of Elizabeth I, no male heirs, another appeal to the Pope which was denied, This is where things start to get tense with Rome. Anne Boleyn was accused of infadelity and executed for treason.

Que Jane Seymore another Mistress but the mother of King Edward VI, Henry had a roving eye and a need for allies in Europe as the Reformation was begining, and the dispute with Rome had escallated to a political matter of soveriegnty, exit Jane conveiniently via typhus, enter Anne of Cleeves a German, the marriage was not consumated so it was annulled, and enter Catherine Howard. By this time the H8 had become corpulant and syphalitic and tyranical.

Catherine Howard was unable to have children, and in H8 was past paranoia so He asked for a third divorce again denied. This was when the Church of England was formed and all Church land was stollen and the Abbies were shut. The Crown got everything, and H8 divorced Catherine Howard via the axe. Enter Catherine Parr, who outlived H8.

H8 was succeeded by the CATHOLIC Mary I, Queen of Scots, she was deeply hated by the aristocracy and most parliments. The Lord Chamberlain (Prime Minister) plotted to have her removed by the accepted form (overthrow and axe) but she died before Parliment could move. Elizabeth I was released from the Tower and made Queen on the basis that she would uphold the Church of England and bannish all Catholics from Government, the army and positions of power. The Dissolution was complete but lasted well into the 1700s and the discrimintion continues today under the Act of Settlement 1703, and the Act of Succession 1754 where Catholics are forbidden by law to hold any government post or marry into the Royal line of succession.

It was the brutality of Elizabeth I and James I that led to the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 by Guy Fawkes, who was captured, then hung drawn and quartered, the event which is still celbrated today every 5 November

The title of Defender of the Faith was bestoded 1521 by Pope Leo X for the kings dissertation on the Seven Sacrements and their importance to the Christian Faith. H8 was a learned and devout Catholic, he had traveled to Rome and studied theology. Make no mistake despite what the Anglicans claim it is a Catholic Title only bestowed by a Pope.

Hope that clears that up for you. This is a potted version only

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He was given the title before he went off the deep end. The man was excommunicated.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: He was given the title before he went off the deep end. The man was excommunicated....
(Quote) William-607613 said:




He was given the title before he went off the deep end. The man was excommunicated.

--hide--

Indeed he was the title as I said was given in 1521 and the Papal Bull of Excommunication was issued following the execution of Anne Bolyne in 1534, confirmed by the execution of St Thomas More who was H8 Lord Chamberlain.

Just because you are excommunicated doesnt negate your good deeds and defence of the Church before that time

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: (Quote) Patrick-624504 said: The title of Defender of the Faith was besto...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Quote:
Patrick-624504 said:

The title of Defender of the Faith was bestoded 1521 by Pope Leo X for the kings dissertation on the Seven Sacrements and their importance to the Christian Faith. H8 was a learned and devout Catholic, he had traveled to Rome and studied theology. Make no mistake despite what the Anglicans claim it is a Catholic Title only bestowed by a Pope.

Hope that clears that up for you. This is a potted version only


You are correct in this fact, and in fact the book is in print againt, introduced by Catholic apologist Raymond de Souza.

keysofpeter.org

However, what Thomas said is also true. Once Henry VIII made himself the head of his own church, he ruthlessly killed all he could find that wouldn't follow him into schism. The loads of "priest holes," found in Tudor era houses throughout England, is testiment to this, as is the history of the popular fight for the Church, the Pilgrimage of Grace in 1536. Those that rose in that should be remembered as we do the Vendee during the French Revolution and the Christeros in Mexico, as brave defenders of the Faith.

en.wikipedia.org

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I never disagreed with the fact H8 formed the Anglican/Episcopal Church and that he was its head. True many martyrs where made because of H8 but many more where made by Elizabeth and James. Priest holes date from their rules and hiding a priest and attending Mass was treason and you faced a tratiors death. Thats being hanged drawn and quartered, very nice chaps. Priests were frequently tortured before execution.

H8 dissertation is required reading by seminarians, as it explains the the meaning and need for the Seven Sacraments

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: (Quote) Patrick-624504 said: I know who H8 was I live in his kin...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Quote:
Patrick-624504 said:

I know who H8 was I live in his kingdom. What you say is partially correct but not totally accurate. H8 did want a divorce, in fact he wanted 4. The first Catherine of Arogon mother of Mary I, was granted by the Pope on the grounds of lack of a male heir, which was always the fault of the woman never the King. The King then needed a new dalliance to produce an heir, que his mistress Anne Bolyen the mother of Elizabeth I, no male heirs, another appeal to the Pope which was denied, This is where things start to get tense with Rome. Anne Boleyn was accused of infadelity and executed for treason.

Que Jane Seymore another Mistress but the mother of King Edward VI, Henry had a roving eye and a need for allies in Europe as the Reformation was begining, and the dispute with Rome had escallated to a political matter of soveriegnty, exit Jane conveiniently via typhus, enter Anne of Cleeves a German, the marriage was not consumated so it was annulled, and enter Catherine Howard. By this time the H8 had become corpulant and syphalitic and tyranical.

Catherine Howard was unable to have children, and in H8 was past paranoia so He asked for a third divorce again denied. This was when the Church of England was formed and all Church land was stollen and the Abbies were shut. The Crown got everything, and H8 divorced Catherine Howard via the axe. Enter Catherine Parr, who outlived H8.

H8 was succeeded by the CATHOLIC Mary I, Queen of Scots, she was deeply hated by the aristocracy and most parliments. The Lord Chamberlain (Prime Minister) plotted to have her removed by the accepted form (overthrow and axe) but she died before Parliment could move. Elizabeth I was released from the Tower and made Queen on the basis that she would uphold the Church of England and bannish all Catholics from Government, the army and positions of power. The Dissolution was complete but lasted well into the 1700s and the discrimintion continues today under the Act of Settlement 1703, and the Act of Succession 1754 where Catholics are forbidden by law to hold any government post or marry into the Royal line of succession.

It was the brutality of Elizabeth I and James I that led to the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 by Guy Fawkes, who was captured, then hung drawn and quartered, the event which is still celbrated today every 5 November

The title of Defender of the Faith was bestoded 1521 by Pope Leo X for the kings dissertation on the Seven Sacrements and their importance to the Christian Faith. H8 was a learned and devout Catholic, he had traveled to Rome and studied theology. Make no mistake despite what the Anglicans claim it is a Catholic Title only bestowed by a Pope.

Hope that clears that up for you. This is a potted version only


King Hernry VIII killed any Catholic who did not follow the church of England, St. Thomas more and so many more and took over every Catholic property in England. Because he was not given a annulment, by the Pope. You can give any other history of what ever else you want but these facts are true and all else has nothing to do with them. I also believe he was officially excumnacated by the Pope. He was a tyrant and a murderer of Catholics. Who cares about the rest, we were not talking about them.

--hide--

If you wish to discuss monarchs and monarchies then you have to care about the rest pre and post. As Saint Paul says "No man is an island entire unto himself"

Again your grasp of English history is almost accurate, but lacks depth. For instance the Lord Marshal of England at the time and still today was the Duke of Norfork, a Catholic, Many many Catholics rich and poor remained true to the Faith and put up with the fines, the persecution and secret Masses. True all English had to attend Anglican services and acknowledge H8 as Head of the church, and Elizabeth, who was responsible for the majority of the persecution, followed by James I, H8 was just a tyrant and mad, anybody Catholic or not was in danger as his paranoia took over, thats how Catherine Parr survived by out whitting H8 by putting others in his way.

So you see Thomas to get a full picture you have to step back and care for all the others because frequently they have as much or more to do with the situation nothing happens in isolation

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: A year ago we had what I think was a very interesting discussion about the Catholic prophecy of the...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

A year ago we had what I think was a very interesting discussion about the Catholic prophecy of the Great Monarch at the Fish Eaters forum. Apparently Louis XVI's son, the Daufin survived and was spirited away from the Temple Prison during the French Revolution. And apparently the Daufin's progeny, which would also be King Louis XVI's progeny is living quietly in Canada. He is being protected as he has already had his life threatened.

Here is the link to the 5 page discussion at the Fish Eaters forum if you care to read it.
catholicforum.fisheaters.com

I'm sorry that the video that I posted on the first page of the thread at the Fish Eaters forum was removed by the owner (I am mikemac at Fish Eaters). But I did record some of the lines from the video when I posted it. Here is what I recorded.

The first line in the Irish prophecies is "Ireland, recall from exile your forgotten sons."
It goes on to say "warriors she call on you to fight", she meaning Mary.
"her lieutenant is Ard ri Erenn monarch of Tara"
"He is not Irish but his heart was"
"He is from lilies of France and knows how to carry the cross"
Then it says
"to crush the tyrant you will only rely on the Gedeon forces" in reference to the Book of Judges chapters 6 to 8.
"from the Galleon of New France, Gedeon move slowly"
"Legion and progeny of the King that XVI is his number come to hunt the tyrants."

The video gave me the shivers. I watched it quite a few times. I find this topic fascinating. Don Quixote (one of the posters on the thread at the Fish Eaters forum) and myself carried on the discussion in private message because he didn't think anything else should be said about King Louis XVI's progeny on a public forum. He sounded very informed about this. I could tell that he wasn't telling me everything that he knew about it.

--hide--

The trouble with that theory is Louis XVI did rule and did produce heirs. He replaced Napoleon I in 1813 following his defeat and exile to Elba. He was the last Bourbon king of France. He in turn did a runner with family to Austria where his wife came from, and where their heirs still live. Napoleon return to rule for 6 months before going to St Helena. Louis retuned, died of over eating and obesity, replaced by his unpopular son Charles who was overthrown, a republic the 2nd was formed in France with Napoleon I son as President. He became Napoleon II and ruled till the 3rd Republic in 1873 when he and all kings were done away with in France.

However, the Bourbons still rule, in Spain, Greece, and many of the Balkan states, so what comes around never goes away

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Indeed he was the title as I said was given in 1521 and the Papal Bull of Excommunicat...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Indeed he was the title as I said was given in 1521 and the Papal Bull of Excommunication was issued following the execution of Anne Bolyne in 1534, confirmed by the execution of St Thomas More who was H8 Lord Chamberlain.

Just because you are excommunicated doesnt negate your good deeds and defence of the Church before that time

--hide--


In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is far more important when we die than whatever we had done before then. The good thief at the Cruxifixion reminds us of this. However, in terms of simply one's place in history, no, I suppose it wouldn't.

I think his life should serve as a warning to every Catholic: we always stand the risk of losing the Faith.

LOCKED
Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Indeed he was the title as I said was given in 1521 and the Papal Bull of Excommunicat...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Indeed he was the title as I said was given in 1521 and the Papal Bull of Excommunication was issued following the execution of Anne Bolyne in 1534, confirmed by the execution of St Thomas More who was H8 Lord Chamberlain.

Just because you are excommunicated doesnt negate your good deeds and defence of the Church before that time

--hide--


In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is far more important when we die than whatever we had done before then. The good thief at the Cruxifixion reminds us of this. However, in terms of simply one's place in history, no, I suppose it wouldn't.

I think his life should serve as a warning to every Catholic: we always stand the risk of losing the Faith.

LOCKED
Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: If you wish to discuss monarchs and monarchies then you have to care about the rest pr...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

If you wish to discuss monarchs and monarchies then you have to care about the rest pre and post. As Saint Paul says "No man is an island entire unto himself"

Again your grasp of English history is almost accurate, but lacks depth. For instance the Lord Marshal of England at the time and still today was the Duke of Norfork, a Catholic, Many many Catholics rich and poor remained true to the Faith and put up with the fines, the persecution and secret Masses. True all English had to attend Anglican services and acknowledge H8 as Head of the church, and Elizabeth, who was responsible for the majority of the persecution, followed by James I, H8 was just a tyrant and mad, anybody Catholic or not was in danger as his paranoia took over, thats how Catherine Parr survived by out whitting H8 by putting others in his way.

So you see Thomas to get a full picture you have to step back and care for all the others because frequently they have as much or more to do with the situation nothing happens in isolation

--hide--


Oh, quite. Spot on. But let's not forget that H8 also ordered monsteries and convents burned and the monks and nuns murdered. I think he and Herod the Great would've been great buddies if they'd been contemporaries.

Just a minor correction there, but your quote is from John Donne, not St. Paul.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: Oh, quite. Spot on. But let's not forget that H8 & his heirs
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:


Oh, quite. Spot on. But let's not forget that H8 & his heirs also ordered monsteries and convents burned and the monks and nuns murdered. I think he and Herod the Great would've been great buddies if they'd been contemporaries.

Just a minor correction there, but your quote is from John Donne, not St. Paul.

--hide--

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Jan 15th 2013 new

The Pope never allowed a divorce between Henry VIII and Catherine. There were no grounds for it. Henry then formed his own church so he could marry Anne Boleyn whom he later beheaded for treason.

Henry was a popular and powerful king in Europe and he probably would have gotten his annulment if it had not been for Catherine's nephew. He was Charles V king of Spain. He had control over the pope and had military superiority. Charles was totally against the annulment and if the pope granted it, it would have cost him his papacy in Italy.

There was a very good series on HBO which showed the reign of Henry VIII and was factually true.

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