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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Roystan-340472 said: It's an irrational fear. Why would the government want to shoot you when it can...
(Quote) Roystan-340472 said:




It's an irrational fear. Why would the government want to shoot you when it can put you out of action by suing you with pockets deeper than yours, tying you up in the courts and bankrupting you?


The fear did make sense - once upon a time - when weapons technology was so primitive that the government owned the same quality of musket that you did. Now they have stuff so dangerous that even the NRA wouldn't want you to be able to buy them. As far as force is concerned, you and your Sig Sauer wanting to take a brave stand against the military (or police) might of the national security state ... good luck to you .... and don't expect anything more than pious words from your fellow enthusiasts of liberty if you do take a stand or if the government does come for you. They won't be standing next to you or between you and the government (ask David Koresh). They'll be oozing sanctimony from a media platform a safe distance away. They might speak at your funeral but one thing they won't be doing is standing shoulder-to-shoulder with you against the armed agents of the state.


In any case, the rationale for bearing arms in case of potential tyranny died when Roe V Wade became the law of the land. What's the most important human right? The right to life. Are thousands of humans being murdered every year with the active or tacit assistance of the state? Yup. Is there tyranny happening now? If you're a foetus, yup. So, anyone in the NRA or the Tea Party or whoever raising a firearm against the government for violating this fundamental right? Nope. So there you go. This noble talk about packing a gun to defend liberty is horse manure, and has been so at least since 1973. After all, if you're not going to use your firearm now to protect an innocent child from being killed today, when are you going to use your firearm?


Guns are useful for practical things like protection against crime and for sport. But as a constitutional icon like the tablets on which the Ten Commandments were carved? Oh, puh-leeze.


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It is an American thing, Roystan. You wouldn't understand it.

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Edward-512961 said: Baloney!! My brother was 15 and home alone, out in the country, when a van pulled up to...
(Quote) Edward-512961 said:

Baloney!!

My brother was 15 and home alone, out in the country, when a van pulled up to the house. Two men got out with a dolly and approached the door. As they opened it, they were met face-to-face with my brother aiming a rifle at them and two Great Danes at his side.

Guns, yes! Liberals, NO!!
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Woooooo, good story!!!!!!!!

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: radio.foxnews.com.
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

radio.foxnews.com

Marianne - do I recall you saying you have access to the newspaper that published the map of gun owners' homes? If so, I'd be interested in their response to this.

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It looks like they took the maps down. They are no longer interactive. That is what they said on the news yesterday.

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Part of the difference between the situations in the former colonies of Australia and ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Part of the difference between the situations in the former colonies of Australia and Canada compared to the USA, is that the US colonies were born into independent statehood of guerilla-style revolution. Americans are propagandized from a young age into the revolutionary mindset by public school and american television. This is why there's so much irrational firearm bias.

However, there's a rational side to firearm possession as well...and that is a Catholic doctrine called subsidiarity (matters ought to be handled by the lowest competent authority; that is, from individual up to the state level, whichever is the lowest competent authority). In the case of firearm ownership, if a person is not legally declared a minor person and assigned a guardian, it is in his own realm of authority to determine whether or not to own one: If you do not wish to own a firearm, fine, I defer to your judgment for your life decision. If I wish to own a firearm and have not been declared a minor person by the state, fine, that is my business. If John Doe down the street wishes to own an arsenal and has not been declared a minor person by the state, fine...I defer to his judgment and leave it as his business.

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Good post Chelsea. I definitely agree that there is a high level of irrational firearm bias in the US and where it comes from. I am slowly learning that it is rather difficult to reason and debate with people who have such an irrational bias.

As for your other comments about subsidiarity, I agree in principle, but I think other factors besides age needs to be taken into account too. Subsidiarity only works when everyone is a responsible, mentally stable, caring, adult with common sense.

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Peter-189584 said: Good post Chelsea. I definitely agree that there is a high level of irrational firearm b...
(Quote) Peter-189584 said:

Good post Chelsea. I definitely agree that there is a high level of irrational firearm bias in the US and where it comes from. I am slowly learning that it is rather difficult to reason and debate with people who have such an irrational bias.

As for your other comments about subsidiarity, I agree in principle, but I think other factors besides age needs to be taken into account too. Subsidiarity only works when everyone is a responsible, mentally stable, caring, adult with common sense.

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"Minor person" (or another way of stating it: second-class citizen) doesn't refer only to age; the concept refers also to persons who have proven incapable of taking care of themselves, such as criminals, who are not allowed to vote, have a vehicle operator license, make binding contracts, swear public oaths, manage personal finances, or own firearms, etc...and are therefore granted a state appointed guardian.


01/20/2013 new

I meant to write "convicted criminals" not merely "criminals." Sorry about that.

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: "Minor person" (or another way of stating it: second-class citizen) doesn...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

"Minor person" (or another way of stating it: second-class citizen) doesn't refer only to age; the concept refers also to persons who have proven incapable of taking care of themselves, such as criminals, who are not allowed to vote, have a vehicle operator license, make binding contracts, swear public oaths, manage personal finances, or own firearms, etc...and are therefore granted a state appointed guardian.


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Chelsea, it is very confusing what you wrote. Why can't convicted criminals manage their personal finances? Why can't they eventually
make binding contracts or have driver's licences?

01/20/2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Chelsea, it is very confusing what you wrote. Why can't convicted criminals manage...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Chelsea, it is very confusing what you wrote. Why can't convicted criminals manage their personal finances? Why can't they eventually
make binding contracts or have driver's licences?

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I am using the example of convicted criminals as a class of people who are treated as minor persons by the state. Depending upon what country you live in, if you're a convicted criminal, you cannot have a driver license, take public oaths, or make contracts, etc. because you've abused the liberty of being a first-class citizen. You've proven unworthy of the liberty, therefore the state takes it away...and assigns you a guardian, i.e., parole or probation officer. There are other classes of people treated as minor persons by the state, as well, such as those under the arbitrary majority age and immigrants working toward full citizenship.

My point is, if one has not abused his liberty, is of majority age and is reckognized as having the distinction of a first-class citizen, he can't morally be treated as an abuser and have his liberty restricted by a higher level authority.

01/20/2013 new
(Quote) Peter-189584 said: You're not clear as to which part you don't agree with, or what benefit the gun had...I...
(Quote) Peter-189584 said:



You're not clear as to which part you don't agree with, or what benefit the gun had...I suspect the Great Danes helped just as much as the gun...

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rolling eyes If he had not had the rifle, they could have easily shot him and the dogs. As it turned out, my brother had the dogs, the rifle, and the element of surprise.
01/20/2013 new
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: It is an American thing, Roystan. You wouldn't understand it.
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



It is an American thing, Roystan. You wouldn't understand it.

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An armed populace represents the ultimate check on tyranny.

The founders did not specify these obvious rights just as the Constitution is silent regarding our freedoms to eat, sleep and breathe. Of course men have the right nay the duty to protect their families.

Taken from Forbes article by Bill Flax:

www.forbes.com
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