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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Feb 5th 2013 new

I have an Augustine too and a wayward daughter ( hes 19 shes 17) it so painful to see children that I once homeschooled at one point in their life and give up so much for them, but the devil wants me to focus on everything I did wrong as well as their father (who is no longer involved since the divorce )...I try to stay hopeful, pray and give them to GOD daily, since its up to HIM to bring them back - not me.

"But" I am their mother - I brought them into the world, w/ God's divinity of course - God holds parents quite accountable for the souls of their children - I take it so seriously - thats why I cant handle daily stresses. I cant control these 2 older ones anymore. Its ridiculous....I wont go on ....


But yes I read alot and follow the sign of the times and wish I know what / where I will be when things get really bad... (housing, $, sustanance ) -
I personally try to go to confession 1x per month to keep my soul cleansed, God forbidden my life were to be taken from me, I wish others in my life understood this. But then you sound wacky - like God is not merciful etc and you dont want to go around judging others?!?!?

Confused, and heart broken too often than not. theheart

I wish I could remember
the very scary and phophetic dream I had in 2008/2009 about Ezekial and being a watchman...I feel I have been given the duty to warn as well - and teach and pray...but being single, divorcing my spouse ( feeling that he was the "evil" influence in our home ) that I contributed to all of the worlds problems today.




Let us all pray for one another, for peace, thats all we can really do.... rosary rosary rosary

Feb 5th 2013 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: I can't argue that the Latin Mass is less distracting for you. That is a subjective judgemen...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:



I can't argue that the Latin Mass is less distracting for you. That is a subjective judgement that belongs only to the individual who feels that.



In my own case at the Novus Ordo Mass I am forced to attend, I ignore the caterwauling that passes for hymns and cringe at the woeful attempts at chant by the frustrated Opera Singers that in all my life seem to believe God has called them to sing in the choir and often insist on being soloists.

.



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Ouch Paul . . . Joyful noise! They probably sing because no one else will.
Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: In my own case at the Novus Ordo Mass I am forced to attend, I ignore the caterwauling th...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

In my own case at the Novus Ordo Mass I am forced to attend, I ignore the caterwauling that passes for hymns and cringe at the woeful attempts at chant by the frustrated Opera Singers that in all my life seem to believe God has called them to sing in the choir and often insist on being soloists. I thank God I personally cannot carry a tune and any attempt at singing is a joke, so I feel no compunction about just keeping my mouth shut.

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I feel your pain and used to feel the same way myself. Only in the last couple years did I start to derive spiritual benefit from the type of Masses you so aptly described. Instead of leaving frustrated and angry, I started consoling Jesus during all that untoward nonsense and thanking him fo rloving us so much that he's willing to endure this sort of spectacle to make himself available to us. Jesus richly rewards these sentiments. Now I leave those Masses in an afterglow of love. How much Jesus loves us! He's willing to endure any humiliation to be close to us. If we only acknowledge that and love him for doing it, we can be swept up in his love and grace.


theheart

Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Rebecca-767861 said: I have an Augustine too and a wayward daughter ( hes 19 shes 17) it so painful to see children ...
(Quote) Rebecca-767861 said:

I have an Augustine too and a wayward daughter ( hes 19 shes 17) it so painful to see children that I once homeschooled at one point in their life and give up so much for them, but the devil wants me to focus on everything I did wrong as well as their father (who is no longer involved since the divorce )...I try to stay hopeful, pray and give them to GOD daily, since its up to HIM to bring them back - not me.

"But" I am their mother - I brought them into the world, w/ God's divinity of course - God holds parents quite accountable for the souls of their children - I take it so seriously - thats why I cant handle daily stresses. I cant control these 2 older ones anymore. Its ridiculous....I wont go on ....


But yes I read alot and follow the sign of the times and wish I know what / where I will be when things get really bad... (housing, $, sustanance ) -
I personally try to go to confession 1x per month to keep my soul cleansed, God forbidden my life were to be taken from me, I wish others in my life understood this. But then you sound wacky - like God is not merciful etc and you dont want to go around judging others?!?!?

Confused, and heart broken too often than not.

I wish I could remember
the very scary and phophetic dream I had in 2008/2009 about Ezekial and being a watchman...I feel I have been given the duty to warn as well - and teach and pray...but being single, divorcing my spouse ( feeling that he was the "evil" influence in our home ) that I contributed to all of the worlds problems today.


Let us all pray for one another, for peace, thats all we can really do....

--hide--


Never nag. Never judge. Love your children. Let them know you love them. Keep loving them and keep letting them know. Don't scold or list the things they're doing wrong. That will drive them further from God and from you. Be their mother. The more we love, the more attractive we become to them.


My daughter has lived with her boyfriend for the past 2 years. I'm not happy about it. Her mass attendance was limited to holidays. I started reaching out to her. Never mentioned the living together or the fact that she found Church something to snicker about and mildly deride. I don't blame her; she had some terrible experiences at an independent catholic school which was full of the most judgmental and atavistic "Catholics" who constantly derided her intelligence and spirit. Because of these pious skunks, she wants no part of the Church and, again, I can't blame her. I did the same thing at her age for exactly the same reasons.


So I started attending the parish down the street from her apartment. Every week I asked her to meet me there. At first she fought it, then she started coming on occasion, now she's there more often than not. I don't preach to her. I just love her. let her know how proud I am of her. Guess what? She's coming around.



Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Oh, come on, get real. I am no fan of the Novus Ordo Mass. The implication of your...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Oh, come on, get real. I am no fan of the Novus Ordo Mass.

The implication of your statement is that some how the Traditinal Latin Mass is the cure for what ails the Church. And that is pure hogwash. The Mass is the Mass. The Novus Ordo is a true and valid Mass just as much and just as spirtually effective as the Tradional Latin Mass.

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How you pray is how you live. There is deep seeded theology woven into the TLM and that theology was shattered with the Novus Ordo or "New Order". So I'd have to say that yes how you pray, and the Holy Sacrifice is the pinnacle of prayer, does effect the Churches vitality.

You will know them by their fruits. I dare you to compare the knowledge of truth between a typical novus ordo congregation and a typical TLM congregation, if that does not say something about how they pray and how influential it can be on ones faith than there is nothing I can say or point to in truth that will.

Feb 5th 2013 new
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: I have no doubt that we are living in the "last days", and I have no doubt that the C...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:



I have no doubt that we are living in the "last days", and I have no doubt that the Church will be persecuted, but great caution is required in claiming when its going to happen and how. The "last days" are God's words, and are in God's time. It could mean another 10 years or it could mean another 1000. The Lord has shown me end of day things too, doesn't mean I'm going to go out and write a book, linking them to a few earthquakes and political unrest.



We continue on in our efforts, pray, defend life, defend religious liberty. IT'd help if the majority of American Catholics stopped voting for dirt bags like Obama.



But I take "end of times" books/prophecies with a grain of salt. There's plenty of them around of all flavours, I have quite a few myself, purchased in my youthful zeal days where I had boxes of blessed candles in wait for the Chastisement.

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I have mentioned several times on this site, and I will mention it again. My pastor from time to time reminds us: We are already in the last days. Our Savior (Christ) has already come, after him there will be no other until he comes again to judge the living and the dead.

I will leave the prophesying to those who do not know how to read the Holy Book itself: "No one knows either the day or the hour."
Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Oh, come on, get real. I am no fan of the Novus Ordo Mass. The implication of your...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Oh, come on, get real. I am no fan of the Novus Ordo Mass.

The implication of your statement is that some how the Traditinal Latin Mass is the cure for what ails the Church. And that is pure hogwash. The Mass is the Mass. The Novus Ordo is a true and valid Mass just as much and just as spirtually effective as the Tradional Latin Mass.

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Not only that, not all of the Latin Masses are licit. (The SSPX, for example, has no canonical standing with the Church.)

Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Jessica-897416 said: Thank you for sharing the website it is great to see where else the Latin Mass is offered. ...
(Quote) Jessica-897416 said:

Thank you for sharing the website it is great to see where else the Latin Mass is offered.

I know when I lived in the Chippewa Falls area for two years I went to Sacred Heart in Edson which was nice but I missed the Schola and the Twin Cities Catholic Chorale from St. Agnes.

There are two churches not to far from Hudson (both in the St. Paul area) that offer the Latin Mass. I usually go to St. Agnes in St. Paul, since it is the easiest to get to. I took my youngest sister with me a few years ago but I guess she did not quite understand what was happening and I don't think she enjoyed as much. Every week (except during Advent and Lent) they will have the Twin Cities Catholic Chorale come in a sing different renditions of the mass which can be burdensome for people who are just starting to go to the Latin Mass (unless they love classical music). So I thought maybe I will invite my family to join me not this coming Sunday but the following, since it will be the first Sunday of Lent and the Schola will be singing the mass.

I started going to the Latin Mass back in 2008 and it has done wonders for me in my faith and has caused me to desire a more intimate relationship with Jesus and a greater desire to grow in the faith.

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Jessica,

Check to make sure the Latin Mass you attend is offered by a priest who has canonical standing with the Church; not all of the orders do.

Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: How you pray is how you live. There is deep seeded theology woven into the TLM and tha...
(Quote) John-324285 said:




How you pray is how you live. There is deep seeded theology woven into the TLM and that theology was shattered with the Novus Ordo or "New Order". So I'd have to say that yes how you pray, and the Holy Sacrifice is the pinnacle of prayer, does effect the Churches vitality.

You will know them by their fruits. I dare you to compare the knowledge of truth between a typical novus ordo congregation and a typical TLM congregation, if that does not say something about how they pray and how influential it can be on ones faith than there is nothing I can say or point to in truth that will.

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Let's not ascribe something to the Latin Mass that is not there.

By that I mean that the same deep seeded theology that exits in TLM still exists in the Novus Ordo.

If it were possible to really test the relative knowledge of truth of the two Congregation with a large enough sample of each, you will probably find them to be the same.

In both cases, woefully lacking. That is the result of the very poor job the Church in the USA has done in the last 40-50 years in teaching the Faithful. It has little to do with the Rite that people attend.

The difference lies more, as someone else observed, that the Rubrics dictated postures and actions during the Mass are more distracting to most people than those of the Latin Mass.

As a 30 year old, you obviously were not around to hear or understand the complaints of the Faithful when the only rite in the Roma Church was the TLM. Although missals were relatively inexpensive and easily available, most people complained that the problem with the Mass was that they did not know what was going on because of the Latin.

And in those days, most high schools, even public ones, required at least two years of Latin for graduation.

As I observed before, one of the interesting phenomena in the US church today is that in those parishes where both forms are available every week, it is the young that make up most of the Congregation of the TLM and it is oldsters who flock (if that word can even be used toda) to the Novus Ordo.

On that basis alone, I would venture to guess that knowledge of the faith and the Mass is most probably on the side of the oldsters, since they received a better education in the faith, on average, then those born after the mid 1960's who have been on a whole, denied a good education in these matters.

I would not challenge your conclusions if you are in essence comparing the knowledge of the Mass and the Faith of youngsters attended the two rites.

Feb 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: So you really want to get scad??? Check out this book by Dr. Kelly Bowring and click on the vide...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

So you really want to get scad??? Check out this book by Dr. Kelly Bowring and click on the videos and after that click on the buy the down load button and read the first couple of chapters for free from the Amazon site. He has written some good books on our times and this one will scare you on what might be on it's way. let me know what you think, her is the link.twoheartspress.com

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Thanks Thomas. I watched a couple of Dr. Kelly Bowring's videos. Like some other writers about Marian apparitions these days I noticed that he does not mention anything about a proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart as requested by Our Lady of Fatima in 1917. There is another Catholic prophecy called the Three Days of Darkness that seems to fit in with Fatima, Garabandal and Akita. They all sound dreadful but they all speak about a period of peace granted to the world afterwards. But Fatima is different than them all because it gives an ultimatum, either the Pope in union with all the bishops do a proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart or we'll see the annihilation of nations. It seems Our Lady of Fatima is concerned for more than just Catholics, she wants to save souls. In May 2010 Pope Benedict said “We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic message is complete.” I figured that the Pope would have asked his bishops to join him in the consecration of Russia by now. It's not too late. I still pray for the consecration every day. In 1931 Sister Lucy had a visit from Our Lord who basically told her that they have 100 years to do it like the King of France had. I don't know if that 100 years is from 1917 or from 1929 when Sister Lucy was asked to request the consecration. This page explains the apparition of 1931.
www.fatima.org

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