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This room is dedicated to those who are facing the challenge of raising children without the support of a spouse. This is a place to share ideas and lend mutual support.

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Feb 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The UBC paper being discussed is not reporting a clinical study; it is a review of the an...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The UBC paper being discussed is not reporting a clinical study; it is a review of the analysis of the clinical and safety trial results, calling into question their conclusions.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the full paper nor the background to validate the authors' claims. However, the claims made in the abstract are such that they deserve objective review by those who have the ability to do so. It is rather disconcerting to see someone with a doctorate level medical degree blindly dismissing the paper because it challenges the status quo.


A review of a clinical trial and safety trials IS a report on a clinical study!

Reading the abstract is nothing. The abstract merely tells the potential reader what is discussed and covered by THE FULL REPORT. Reading the abstract is like reading the dust jacket of a novel and then saying you have read the book.

Read the report before commenting on it not just the abstract

Feb 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: You can trust doctors just fine, its the tree hugging illinformed on the internet you ...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

You can trust doctors just fine, its the tree hugging illinformed on the internet you cant trust. If you want to find out about HPV vaccine I suggest you read the Peer Reviewed website< and select Ministry of Health or Medsafe.


Oh come on Pat. I say, that's not cricket. Why be a party pooper? Don't use the sharp pin of logic/common sense to burst the happy bubble of flaming hysterical paranoia and righteous indignation.

How getting a vaccine equates to giving a child license to have sex is beyond my feeble powers of comprehension. I'm doing my dim-bulb best to fathom it but keep falling short. But who am I to derail the emotional gymnastics that go on display whenever sex is mentioned in here?

For what it's worth, I'm beef-witted and avoid paranoid anti-vaccine websites, but here's my take on this issue. It's a good idea to have our teens vaccinated for HPV because: (1) in most states it's the law (the last thign we need is some over-zealous moron from DCFS hauling us into court); (2) there's always a chance that our kids will be exposed to this virus in young adulthood so they should be protected; and (3) it gives parents an opportunity to discuss premarital sex and its potentially dire consequences with their children. (#3 alone is worth getting the vaccine.)

Feb 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Sorry Jerry Hep A is body fluid to body fluid and sexually transmitte...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Sorry Jerry Hep A is body fluid to body fluid and sexually transmitted. Hep B is body fluid to body fluid, can be sexually transmitted but is relatively a very fragile virus. It will die with 15 minutes exposure to UV light, Hep C is blood to blood transmission, but not sexually transmitted, only by direct blood contact. Hep D/ Hep E and Hep F are transmitted by saliva and possible all body fluids, all have the possibility to be sexually transmitted.

Hepatitis IS a MAJOR killer and one of the top 5 reasons for Liver failure and transplant. Hep A is very aggressive and hard to kill, as is Hep C 1 in 4 people treated for Hep C fail to take to treatment. (CDC) Hep D/E are also very aggressive and resilient to treatment. The viri have a fast mutation rate and that makes it hard to crack the code to destroy it. Therefore vaccination is our best option to eradicate the disease. Thankfully Hep B is the most common and the easiest to prevent, but no cure exists for any Hepatitis at this time and all who have any of the strains (I understand we are up to Hep H now) face the real likelihood of liver failure and Hepatic Cancer.

My citations for you are me I have Hep C, and was one of the 25% who didnt take well to vaccine or the treatment, currently on the wait list for another Human Trial for vaccine and 30 years Advance Care Nursing including Contagous diseases.

But Health Reports from all of the District Health Boards and the Public Committee on Hepatitis and the government reports on the Economic and Health Cost of Hepatitis in the Ministry of Health, Ministry of Social Development, Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Economic Development. or Public Health reports UNESCO Health and Development

UNICEF Health and Children in Developing Countries

and the report of the International Society of Immunology report on The Efficacy of Vaccination, and the International Society of Gastric Barriatic and Hepatic Surgeons Report on Hepatitis and Cancer.

Cant give you the websites because I am not sure if the site uses a French Nomeclature


Patrick, are you aware, that a cure for Hepatitis C is within sight? The new drugs which are in trials now in the US/Canada/Europe have had amazing results (although not widely tested yet in those who have progressed to cirrhosis). These will likely hit the market in the U.S. by years-end. I've been to a couple CME's about this(I'm a retired physician) and I have never seen the hepatologists and infectious disease specialists so excited in my life. At the conference up in Toronto this year, they were literally jumping for joy! They are actually now leaving it up to newly diagnosed patients whether to start treatment now (with old drugs) or wait until these hit the market. And, it's only 1-2 drugs for a relatively short treatment period (I think 3-6months tops). They also think this is just the beginning of more good news, as in the limited trials on the more advanced cases, there seemed to be about 50% cure rates. And, yes they are referring to this as a CURE for Hep C! They expect the drugs to hit the Canadian market about a year after they hit the U.S. market. Not sure when it would hit your market (perhaps the same as Canada?) So, let us thank God that it appears that a cure for Hep C is here (and so then, it would be good to recommend everyone be tested for Hep C so they could then be treated which I believe is going to happen in the U.S. if the recommendation is not already in place - since many people have Hep C and don't know it because they are asymptomatic.)

Feb 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Cathy-564420 said: thought this was educational. I don't thi...
(Quote) Cathy-564420 said:

I thought this was educational. I don't think HPV vaccine is a free ticket to have sex, but to prevent silent cervical cancers in the future as the numbers are hugh by the time people are 50. My daughters had them as it was recommended by their pediatrician whom they have gone to since they were born. Heck, if there is something there to prevent cancers, why not? It is just a safe and smart choice but everyone has to make up their own minds obviously.


As the CDC points out: neither HPV vaccine prevents any cancer absolutely. Sexually active girls and women are to be continually screened even after the vaccine, by CDC recommendation, for cervical cancers.

Also, you're SOL of you're over the age of 26 and you get the vaccine, since the CDC reports that clinical trials up to this point have shown limited to no positive effect against HPV in women vaccinated.

The CDC also points out that there are other ways to prevent MOST cervical cancers (just like the vaccine when applied to the right age groups) without getting the vaccine.

The HPV types that both vaccines target are those which are sexually transmitted, which means that those people who are interested in certainly and absolutely preventing cancers resulting from those HPV types should, as the CDC says, avoid all sexual activity.

Feb 6th 2013 new

Since you asked for thoughts: HPV is a horrible disease. This vaccine prevents it (not all) and is marvelous. Let's face it...he will have sex at some time in his life and this just prevents the spread of it. This disease presents itself as warts....but they are sometimes not seen. Most people do not know they have this disease and then they spread it. I think that you should read whatever you can to make a more informed decision rather than deciding that this will tell him to have sex. Sex is a part of life unless he is going to be a priest or celibate life. This vaccine does not prevent against all varieties of this disease so let him know that.....and educate him. My parents did not talk of sex. These things were unknown in my generation and the sexual revolutions spread it all around. Our ignorance left us wounded for life. That is just another way of thinking that this germs do exist all over without even knowing. These warts can present inside the vagina unseen, etc.

Feb 6th 2013 new
After reviewing the British Colombia article in question, I can perhaps explain to our readers that careful scrutiny of the inclusion criteria for their review showed inclusion of only small scale clinical trial numbers and excludes large amounts of post -market data. The statistical methods used are inferior in power to the meta-analyses I have shared previously and the conclusion is heavily editorialized. A previous poster made a good point in that a Review study published by an Ophthalmology department no less lacks the heft of a CDC multi-center trial and review. In response to the previous poster's "disconcertment" I would say that I am not ignoring this particular study. In fact it's aim seems to be to temper specific claims such as the 70% reduction in cervical cancer rates. That number however is impossible to validate in a clinical trial as the only way to design such a study would be to compare a vaccinated and unvaccinated group while exposing both strains to HPV which is clearly unethical. For this reason studying epidemiological data for cervical cancer rates (and a change in response to vaccination) will only ever be correlational without any ability to sort out other confounding population variables. Correlation is not equal to causation. We know that HPV causes cancer and we know the vaccine is protective against HPV. The correlation between these in driving, vaccination is sound, the article simply tempers exaggerated claims of
Feb 6th 2013 new
Sorry about that, hit submit too soon. Claims of causation in terms of cancer prevention. You are correct, its not scientific to dismiss disagreeing arguments but you have to scrutinize the details first in order to ensure two points can be compared in the first place. After doing so, I stand by the numbers I originally posted. As a last comment, always remember to consider the source. An off department in a non-US program published in a lower tier journal carries less weight, particularly without original data or a weighty statistical program. I hope that clarifies things to an extent.
Feb 6th 2013 new

I was on the fence about this for my 12 year old daughter.... but the more i think about it, its not such much saying .. you got a shot, go have sex. They can stay a virgin until there wedding night, and their partner might have sleeped with someone before. Boys are the ones who carry the disease. If it can prevent cervical cancer... which is what HPV can turn into... then I say Yes

Feb 6th 2013 new
I agree. my 12 year old daughter has started the series to protect her from others. I took this as another opportunity to discuss saving her virginity until marriage. In no way was I encouraging her to have premarital sex by getting the vaccine for her.
Feb 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: There is no link between Throat cancer and HPV vaccination, or any vaccination. Throat...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

There is no link between Throat cancer and HPV vaccination, or any vaccination. Throat Cancer has a completly different aetiology, mand many causes.

and Jerry go to the Public Health section and look up cancer and vaccine rates


Wrong. Your link is to the home page at WHO. It did not link to this specific topic.

In the search link on WHO you yourself can type in Throat Cancer/HPV...and get information such as this, that says they are finding a link between HPV and throat cancer.

I live in the real work...and here is my real work friend and I were swimming with a manatee in Florida. We asked the Park Ranger why this specific manatee was really bumpy. He said this manatee picked in HPV from humans. Pretty sad. There are many strains. Not all cancerous. But don't take lightly this virus.

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