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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:As for my point that mothers get a pass, I have been involved in the pro-life movement for ...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:


As for my point that mothers get a pass, I have been involved in the pro-life movement for a long time. I have rarely heard anyone condemn the women for gettiing the abortion - it almost completely put upon the doctors and other mitigating factors as you stated. I simply disagree with that.

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Patrick I know you know it is not up to us to condemn anyone. Monsignor Philip Reilly, founder of Helpers of God's Precious Infants helpersbrooklynny.org has rightly said "We're ALL involved up to our eyeballs in the tragedy of abortion". Which one of us can say we are completely guiltless? Which one of us has always and everywhere done everything in our power to stop abortion? I wonder - would this couple have gone through with the murder of their child had there been someone praying on the sidewalk in front of Carhart's facility offering them encouragement and support?

Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: Patrick I know you know it is not up to us to condemn anyone. Monsignor Philip Re...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:

Patrick I know you know it is not up to us to condemn anyone. Monsignor Philip Reilly, founder of Helpers of God's Precious Infants helpersbrooklynny.org has rightly said "We're ALL involved up to our eyeballs in the tragedy of abortion". Which one of us can say we are completely guiltless? Which one of us has always and everywhere done everything in our power to stop abortion? I wonder - would this couple have gone through with the murder of their child had there been someone praying on the sidewalk in front of Carhart's facility offering them encouragement and support?

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I agree with that. Just about everyone except maybe Joe Scheidler could do more. I think the saying, "evil persists when good people do nothing" probably applies to abortion more than other evil in the world. There is hope to stop mid to late term abortions. As for earlier term abortions, they are likely to remain legal and quite readily available for the forseeable future in most places in America. With RU 486, the woman doesn't even have to involve a doctor other than getting a prescription. So when push comes to shove, it eventually comes to down to the woman and her mind, body heart and soul. Figuring out a way or ways to change these women's hearts and minds has proven to be tragic problem. More post abortive women like Abby Johnson speaking out could be a solution.

Feb 13th 2013 new

I have not read all of the responses in this thread, so please forgive me if I repeat what's already been said.

I agree that no woman should be given a pass for having committed the sin of abortion, however, I also feel it is not our place to judge her. The tragedy here is the loss of a life of a young woman, and it is, indeed, a tragedy. Any loss of life is a tragedy. Suicide is a tragedy, and that, too, is a choice that many people make for themselves. It truly is sad that so many people are so despaired as to do such a thing.

That said, I do agree with you, Patrick, that the woman herself is just as responsible for what happened to her and I believe it was a risk she chose, so, no, I don't feel much sympathy for her either. I am a strong believer that, if you don't want children, DON'T HAVE SEX!!! I truly tire of those who use abortion as birth control. Why not use SELF control rather than birth control???

I think the pro-life movement targets the doctors so much more than the mothers because they do this baby murder every day and for their paycheck. In addition, many of these abortion clinics persuade women to have the abortion, when they might not have otherwise. They are spreading their infection of evil to every woman that walks through their door.

As a woman who chose to have an unplanned child, I can say that there is no proper excuse under heaven to undergo an abortion. I was young and unwed and scared to death, too. I even considered putting him up for adoption so that he would have a good life. Abortion never crossed my mind as an option and I was a lot less Catholic then than I am now. Abortion is stupid, risky and cruel. Anyone who goes into it knowing that (and they all do), is accepting the risk and all the ugliness that goes with it. It seems to me that many of them think they can sweep what they've done under the carpet and that's the end of it. Unfortunately, some DO have further consequences, such as the case with Jennifer Moribelli.

For the record, I have known many women who have had abortions, and each and every one of them did it for selfish purposes and knew full well what they were doing. People who try to say they don't are just people who aren't accepting responsibility for their ugly decisions.

Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Actually, there is a direct correlation between birth control and abortion. Unfort...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Actually, there is a direct correlation between birth control and abortion.

Unfortunately, people, on the whole, practice birth control to avoid pregnancy. Except for abstinence from sex, all methods of birth control have a failure rate. Some more than others.

With the coming of the moronic sex revolution of the 60's, the majority of people believe they have a god (small g used on purpose) given right to have sex whenever and with whomever they want without consequence of any kind.

So we have seen a pandemic increases in sex related diseases and increased abortions. And those increases have far exceeded the rate of increase in the population.

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Are you talking about the correlation of birth control CAUSING abortion because then you would be right. However, otherwise I'd disagree because the birth control is readily available and the people CHOOSE Not to use it. Thus, whether it is there or not....a mute point. Abortions are usually done because babies are inconvenient and abortions are then used as a means of birth control. I also disagree with your statement about not being able to determine if a doctor who kills bazillions of babies and permanently damages women is evil or not....pretty sure we can judge evil when it is clearer than day. Hitler was evil for instance. No we are not God, but obvious is obvious.

Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Paul-866591 said: Actually, there is a direct correlatio...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Paul-866591 said:

Actually, there is a direct correlation between birth control and abortion.

Unfortunately, people, on the whole, practice birth control to avoid pregnancy. Except for abstinence from sex, all methods of birth control have a failure rate. Some more than others.

With the coming of the moronic sex revolution of the 60's, the majority of people believe they have a god (small g used on purpose) given right to have sex whenever and with whomever they want without consequence of any kind.

So we have seen a pandemic increases in sex related diseases and increased abortions. And those increases have far exceeded the rate of increase in the population.


Are you talking about the correlation of birth control CAUSING abortion because then you would be right. However, otherwise I'd disagree because the birth control is readily available and the people CHOOSE Not to use it. Thus, whether it is there or not....a mute point. Abortions are usually done because babies are inconvenient and abortions are then used as a means of birth control. I also disagree with your statement about not being able to determine if a doctor who kills bazillions of babies and permanently damages women is evil or not....pretty sure we can judge evil when it is clearer than day. Hitler was evil for instance. No we are not God, but obvious is obvious.

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...and I meant moot...not mute...I hate when I do that.

Feb 13th 2013 new

Msgr. Reilly, the priest who is renowned for his sidewalk counseling in front of abortion clinics teaches that the true goal of the pro-life movement is saving souls.

Unborn children are innocent for they have not reached the age of reason and cannot sin. For them, suffering an abortion is not a sin and we must have faith that God, in his infinite mercy, will have mercy on them since they did not have the opportunity to be baptized and they are truly innocent.

It is the person who chooses the abortion that commits the grave sin. This can be the mother, but it also can be the husband, boyfriend, or a close relative. In addtion, I would say that the doctor is pretty much always complicit too. These are the people who are targeted by the pro-life movement for they are the ones who have committed a grave sin and as such they face eternal separation from God if they die without confessing. The pro-life movement is not about placing blame for the aborted child, but rather about bringing those who have sinned back to God.

Feb 13th 2013 new

Two things are very interesting in this thread:

1) The reiteration that we must not "judge" the woman who procured a completed abortion, or any such other woman. This is a plain absurdity, however, since we're enjoined by Our Lord to judge not by appearances, but judge just judgment (John 7:24). So, it is obviously MOST reasonable and in line with the Gospels to judge such a woman. Saying NOT to judge these women to be murderesses is like saying not to judge a man who is forcing a girl or woman to whom he is not married to give him the sexual act that is only proper to marriage to be a rapist.

2) The lack of any mention of excommunication (can. 1398, 1321-1325) of those who profess to be Catholic which is incurred ipso facto by the procurement of a completed abortion since the 1983 Code of Canon Law came into binding force. It seems to me that those who work in the support network for post-abortive women would be warning of this very grave censure which not only barrs one from the sacraments, but also from the spiritual treasury of the Church.

Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Dan-28682 said: Msgr. Reilly, the priest who is renowned for his sidewalk counseling in front of abortion clinics te...
(Quote) Dan-28682 said:

Msgr. Reilly, the priest who is renowned for his sidewalk counseling in front of abortion clinics teaches that the true goal of the pro-life movement is saving souls.

Unborn children are innocent for they have not reached the age of reason and cannot sin. For them, suffering an abortion is not a sin and we must have faith that God, in his infinite mercy, will have mercy on them since they did not have the opportunity to be baptized and they are truly innocent.

It is the person who chooses the abortion that commits the grave sin. This can be the mother, but it also can be the husband, boyfriend, or a close relative. In addtion, I would say that the doctor is pretty much always complicit too. These are the people who are targeted by the pro-life movement for they are the ones who have committed a grave sin and as such they face eternal separation from God if they die without confessing. The pro-life movement is not about placing blame for the aborted child, but rather about bringing those who have sinned back to God.

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I am confused to how you can say that the husband chooses the abortion when he has no legal rights. I suppose if there were a case where the mother was total against the abortion and the husband/ boyfriend convinced her to change her mind; that might be the case. However, the decision is ultimately that of the mother. I have no idea if the decision were the fathers if there were be more or less abortions. But, that isn't the case, so ulitimately the responsibility falls on the mother.

Feb 13th 2013 new

OK Patrick I can give you a reason,their are many woman who are forced by their nusbands nd boyfriends and even get beatiings iof they don't what they are told many men make the children and then don't want to support them they would rather have the woman abort or beat them to a pulp some even kill them.There are many reasons for this not just because the woman decides this.Iv'e stood at abortioon centers and seen mothers force their children into the buildings to get this done everyone thinks different about having their child go through a pregnancy some children are even raped and they have medical issues and can't go through a pregnancy not everyone going into those buildings go to murder a child on purpose,it could be health,threrats,parents,I always ask who is the blame the man is very much part since they like to impregnate very young girls jail bate buut they don't care.

Feb 13th 2013 new

Your not being fair expecially with young girls children.

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