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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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02/15/2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Ain't it the truth?? To that list can be added directors of liturgy, lay ministe...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Ain't it the truth?? To that list can be added directors of liturgy, lay ministers, pastoral ministers, DRE's and music directors. Heretics and iconoclasts all!

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I do hope you aren't making a sweeping generalization, my dear sir. For I should be extremely vexed if you think that ALL lay ministers, DRE's etc. fall into that category. Heavens! As a young, orthodox Asst. Youth Minister/Catechist, who hopes to be a DRE someday, I take exception to this statement.


I consider my job to be like that of the Jesuits back in the Elizabethan era (you know, before they got lame), sneaking behind enemy lines to teach the next generation of the faithful how to be orthodox Catholics and not lame-duck CINO cafeteria-picking lotus-eaters. It's difficult to navigate those politics, but not impossible. And there are a lot of us young laypersons fighting those battles, upholding the Magisterium, and educating young (physically or spiritually new) Catholics behind the backs of your "heretics and iconoclasts."


I don't argue that a lot of the people in authority have become the enemies of orthodoxy. But please recognize that there is a wave of young, traditional Catholics on the rise, starting to take over those positions. The rebirth of orthodoxy is coming, but not if you pull the rug out from under our feet.

02/15/2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-942124 said: I do hope you aren't making a sweeping generalization, my dear sir. For I sh...
(Quote) Elizabeth-942124 said:


I do hope you aren't making a sweeping generalization, my dear sir. For I should be extremely vexed if you think that ALL lay ministers, DRE's etc. fall into that category. Heavens! As a young, orthodox Asst. Youth Minister/Catechist, who hopes to be a DRE someday, I take exception to this statement.


I consider my job to be like that of the Jesuits back in the Elizabethan era (you know, before they got lame), sneaking behind enemy lines to teach the next generation of the faithful how to be orthodox Catholics and not lame-duck CINO cafeteria-picking lotus-eaters. It's difficult to navigate those politics, but not impossible. And there are a lot of us young laypersons fighting those battles, upholding the Magisterium, and educating young (physically or spiritually new) Catholics behind the backs of your "heretics and iconoclasts."


I don't argue that a lot of the people in authority have become the enemies of orthodoxy. But please recognize that there is a wave of young, traditional Catholics on the rise, starting to take over those positions. The rebirth of orthodoxy is coming, but not if you pull the rug out from under our feet.

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Oh heavens no. Forgive me. I see plenty of outstanding and faithful people (like yourself) in lay ministry. But you know the type. It was a stock character at many parishes for a few decades. Fifth columns, Trojan horses. Faithful young people like yourself are JPII's gift to the Church. This is why he started World Youth Day with its focus on faith and the Eucharist. You give me hope. I'm no Chicken Little. The Church is headed in the right direction now and has been for close to 20 years.


Thanks!

02/15/2013 new

I was fortunate enough to come into the church under the tutelage of a conservative 40 something priest. He did some remodeling at the church to bring back some traditional elements, in particular stained glass windows. When he wanted to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary our then bishop wouldn't allow it so he had a place framed in behind the sheetrock to accommodate it once the tide has turned enough! He also then put in big clear windows so the tabernacle, which is in a chapel, could be seen from the nave. Yay Fr Tim!

Having been accused of being too conservative, he is very welcoming of the next batch of young priests who make him look moderate.

The tide is turning!

02/15/2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Oh heavens no. Forgive me. I see plenty of outstanding and faithful people (like you...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Oh heavens no. Forgive me. I see plenty of outstanding and faithful people (like yourself) in lay ministry. But you know the type. It was a stock character at many parishes for a few decades. Fifth columns, Trojan horses. Faithful young people like yourself are JPII's gift to the Church. This is why he started World Youth Day with its focus on faith and the Eucharist. You give me hope. I'm no Chicken Little. The Church is headed in the right direction now and has been for close to 20 years.


Thanks!

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I know exactly the type you're talking about.


I'm glad to hear your optimism. It's refreshing!

02/15/2013 new

(Quote) Beth-440770 said: . . . When he wanted to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary our then bishop wouldn't a...
(Quote) Beth-440770 said:

. . . When he wanted to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary our then bishop wouldn't allow it so he had a place framed in behind the sheetrock to accommodate it once the tide has turned enough! He also then put in big clear windows so the tabernacle, which is in a chapel, could be seen from the nave. Yay Fr Tim!

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This pains me. Every diocese has someone whose job it is to ensure that Churches are constructed or remodeled according to certain guidelines. Unfortunately many of these people were dissidents or "reformers". Thank heaven they're passing from the scene as new bishops are appointed. The tide is turning and Yay for your wonderful Fr. Tim!

02/15/2013 new

I am giving a general reply. I am not concerned. I've been at this a long time and have served in many positions in the Church. I can remember being a young mother and in a deeply conservative phase (we all go through them phases that is, its part of our growth). And, my uncle, a dear and wonderful priest said to me, "Runt, relax. There are ebbs and there are flows. The pendulum always swings way to the right and then way to the left. Yes, we lost some things in Vatican II, things that your generation missed out on, but ours had plenty of. We are a living Church and we are full of the full gamut of humanity, good, bad, lost, lonely, longing and looking. At any given point someone will be unhappy about what is happening in the church. So what you must do is this, worry only about how you approach the Lord, are you so worried about what someone else isn't doing that you are paying more attention to them than to God? If so, quit. Be an example in your actions. And, second, discern what is essential and what is nonessential. Worry about the essentials, let the nonessentials settle themselves.

I would add to his wisdom, learn the history and learn cultures. Every culture and even subcultures will have things they do that are different. For example, it was a long tradition in Europe to have no kneelers at all, standing was the norm and it was a sign of reverence. The moving of the tabernacle to a side altar was not intended to neglect the Eucharist but to make the mass and the consecration the central focus. Many churches removed the tabernacle from the alter entirely setting it up in its own Eucharistic chapel. Part of the movements associated with Vatican II were designed to draw more people into the celebration of the Mass, not just showing up to hear the Mass. I think this is a good move. I also know that it can be taken too far and so we need good well trained catechists who engage with their students and are able to explain appropriately the hows and the whys and the proper gestures and most importantly the historic traditions etc.

Prior to Vatican II the emphasis was on the divinity of Christ, after Vatican II there was a concerted effort to focus on the humanity of Christ in a hope that the faithful would be able to develop a closer relationship with him. A move away from the checklists of dos and dont's to an embracing and experiencing of Our Lord. There are benefits to both and as one matures in the faith it becomes much easier to integrate the two into a rich and layered experience of Christ, that is both reverent and intimate.

One year as DRE, the First Holy Communion class was prepared and receiving their First Holy Communion. I am up there with them to help guide them through the moment and had warned them to take only a sip of the Blood. One little boy, takes a huge gulp, and I knew immediately we were about to have a serious problem. I am trying not to panic. I am trying to coax him gently and discretely into swallowing, but of course he's seven and after a few horrendous minutes, it happens, he opens his mouth and the Blood spews from him, I am trying desperately to catch as much as I can, but it splatters to the floor of the pew and out into the aisle. We are in a small church with not much room to maneuver and we are now in full swing of the Communion procession. I am trying to direct people around it, get someone to help and get to the back to get some purificators from the sacristy. I am totally shook up. I finally make it to the sacristy and then back and use the purificators to collect the Blood. After mass, I let Fr. know, I am almost ready to cry and the poor little guy realizing tha what he did has really shook everyone up is really sheepish. Fr. was great, he took the purificators and the little boys white shirt and rinsed them in the sacrarium and explained to the little one what he was doing and why. It was completely horrific and yet was turned into a blessed teaching moment and imparted the importance of the Eucharist and reverence in a manner we could never have accomplished otherwise. It also taught me to expect the unexpected and roll with the situation.

So I do not worry any longer. I do my best, I offer instruction when it is appropriate for me to do so and I have hope in the promise that the Gates of Hell will not prevail. Just my thoughts, Lauren

02/15/2013 new

No, I am not concerned. We have had many traditions over the centuries. It is more important that we are in the church and worshiping God.

02/15/2013 new

I joined the church in 1987...and i actually think that things are much better now--at least in California. There were churches and priests that were getting wayy out there back then. I havent been to mass in Cleveland so wouldnt know what u r experiencing.

02/16/2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: Have you tried any Traditional Latin Masses in San Diego? I know of a very good one, if you...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

Have you tried any Traditional Latin Masses in San Diego? I know of a very good one, if your are interested.
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Yes, I do go to St. Anne's once in a great while, but can't make it my home parish because for one, my son is not used to Latin and doesn't like it (he prefers the NO Mass as they have at school), and two, 11 am Mass is waaay too early for me. Imaculata is probably as nice as it gets here in San Diego outside of the TLM, and that's where I go on days when I can wake up by 11 am Mass. But as beautiful as that church is, it's not very conservative. Ideally it would be nice to find a church with no EMHC, no altar girls, a communion rail, and as a cherry on top, a high Mass at 6 pm on Sunday night. biggrin I know, I know, I'm pushing my luck. One can dream though.

Praying

02/16/2013 new

Oh, and forgot to mention... Confessions offered before all Masses!

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