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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Because anything Dolan is credited for doing, Burke has done far more consistently and ...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Because anything Dolan is credited for doing, Burke has done far more consistently and forcefully, particularly in regards to the definition of marriage. Also, Burke has not had a history of...shall we say "discretionary" retreats...at moments when his voice would've been most needed. I am particularly thinking of his performance during the redefinition of marriage in New York, when, where the vote was being taken, he couldn't be found anywhere in the state. He only sent a letter condemning the thing after the fact.

www.catholicculture.org

www.catholicculture.org

On top of that, he's not felt to be particularly friendly to Tradition as Burke is. He's never done a Traditional Latin Mass (unlike Burke), and there is not one FSSP parish or mission in New York State, much less the city proper. The nearest is in New Jersey. This is kind of ironic when you consider that the only priest (this is an archdiocese of millions, and only one ordination to the priesthood?!) to be ordained by him last year did celebrate the TDM as his first mass.

www.nytimes.com

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Steven, I totally agree Burke would be a way better choice then Dolan. Dolan gives away the store and then complains after the fact. His stance on the HHS mandate was admiral but, I think he is a little to liberal in heart and makes deals behind the scenes with public Catholics. He shys away from rebuking anyone in public office. I'm from NY and I was really disappointed with his reaction on gay Marriage law. Now every NY catholic is up for law suits if they don't comply with the marriage laws. Burke has always been public about his stance on most things and even rebuked public Catholics for going against there faith. Though I doubt any American Will every be chosen in my life time. Burke would be a blessing and a warning to all Catholics, So I think they will be to afraid to choose him. Would he be the best choice right now, we can only hope and pray and trust The Lord.

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Feb 17th 2013 new

Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinition of marriage in New York. But even if he had gone on a vocal rampage, would it really have made a difference? New York is one of the top two states in every liberal agenda item.

Sometimes picking and choosing a person's battles might be a sign of prudence which will allow him more clout with the enemy on the battles he does fight.

It is far easier to criticize others for their inaction than it is for us to get up and fight ourselves when we need to. Regardless what Cardinal Dolan may have been doing at the time regarding that issue, the more pressing question is, why did the Catholics who live in New York not speak up?
I think they are far more liable than their Cardinal is.

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Chris-840826 said: Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinitio...
(Quote) Chris-840826 said:

Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinition of marriage in New York. But even if he had gone on a vocal rampage, would it really have made a difference? New York is one of the top two states in every liberal agenda item.

Sometimes picking and choosing a person's battles might be a sign of prudence which will allow him more clout with the enemy on the battles he does fight.

It is far easier to criticize others for their inaction than it is for us to get up and fight ourselves when we need to. Regardless what Cardinal Dolan may have been doing at the time regarding that issue, the more pressing question is, why did the Catholics who live in New York not speak up?
I think they are far more liable than their Cardinal is.

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You have a good point, and that starts with the legislaters of that state, many of whom are, supposedly, catholic.

Then there is the "catholic" governor of NY with his "catholic" concubine (they live together but are unmarried). This is a governor, Andrew "Mussolini" Coumo, who supports making abortion a "fundamental right", which means that Catholic doctors and institutions would have a gun put to their heads to force them to do abortions. He has also one of the first states to pass, literally in the middle of the night, the new wave of gun-control legislation that makes those that put 8 bullets in their magazines criminals (really!). eyebrow

(As an aside, Dolan supports the "8 rounds and you're jailed" law as well.)

I guess you can, being a "republic" point at the voters as being at fault, though in many places no matter what candidate they vote for, this is what they get so do they really "rule" in this Democrat ruled "democracy"? rolling eyes

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Chris-840826 said: Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinitio...
(Quote) Chris-840826 said:

Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinition of marriage in New York. But even if he had gone on a vocal rampage, would it really have made a difference? New York is one of the top two states in every liberal agenda item.

Sometimes picking and choosing a person's battles might be a sign of prudence which will allow him more clout with the enemy on the battles he does fight.

It is far easier to criticize others for their inaction than it is for us to get up and fight ourselves when we need to. Regardless what Cardinal Dolan may have been doing at the time regarding that issue, the more pressing question is, why did the Catholics who live in New York not speak up?
I think they are far more liable than their Cardinal is.

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let me try and give you and example, instead of and excuse. I was watching Ben hur today and when the Catholics were being lead to arena to be killed by Lions, they were all afraid and really scad. Then Peter came into the arena being sent By Jesus to feed his sheep and spoke to them all and told them they were blessed to be martyrs for the Lord Jesus Christ and would be in heaven on this day because of this witness to the truth.

Then all the people went to the slaughter willingly and singing with belief that God would be with them. People need there Bishops and Priest to be like Peter in moments of Crises to give them hope in what they do, just like Jesus gave hope to so many and Peter and Paul followed in this example. They were not making deals in back rooms to get what they could to protect the Church and there tax exempt status.

They showed the people in there care how to stand up against unlawful laws, even if giving there lives for it. This is what is absent in the USA Catholic leaders. They make deals with the unjust, even if they are Catholics to take the crumbs they will give and less and less each time as years go by. The shepherds need to lead the sheep and feed them with the hope of what they do is right and just. This is for what they were chosen for. Not to make deals and get what they can. Peter was sent by Jesus to feed his seep and he did and was hung on a cross upside down for it.

I pray for our religious leaders, but I can not do What they are called to do . Who would listen to me or you, they are called to set the example for us and lead us in hope and truth. Soon it won't matter because persecution is just around the corner and they will be forced to do it or not then. God help us all when that happens. They secular world is slowly but surely closing in on the Catholic Church and soon won't tolerate our God given laws and will want us to believe there new laws or face some kind of retrubution if we don't. I already here from Catholics who don't practice there faith, that if you don't want to be a part of and abortion, you should not go into the medical field. Thats just non praticing Catholics could you imagine what non Catholics think.

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Chris-840826 said: Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinitio...
(Quote) Chris-840826 said:

Thank you, Steven and Thomas. I was not aware of his action or inaction regarding the redefinition of marriage in New York. But even if he had gone on a vocal rampage, would it really have made a difference? New York is one of the top two states in every liberal agenda item.

Sometimes picking and choosing a person's battles might be a sign of prudence which will allow him more clout with the enemy on the battles he does fight.

It is far easier to criticize others for their inaction than it is for us to get up and fight ourselves when we need to. Regardless what Cardinal Dolan may have been doing at the time regarding that issue, the more pressing question is, why did the Catholics who live in New York not speak up?
[I think they are far more liable than their Cardinal is.]

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I would kindly disagree with this opinion, thats what leadership is by definition-speaking up and leading the flock.. True, the people could've tried to speak up, but they have no pulpit. That would be his duty.

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Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: So you would say to any of the great Saints or Doctors of the Church to sit by, pray and ...
(Quote) John-324285 said:

So you would say to any of the great Saints or Doctors of the Church to sit by, pray and NOT combat heresy with the full authority of the Gospel of Our Lord?!?! We are all called to give testimony to the truth. I for one will no longer sit idly by while fires burn uncontested through the fields of Our Lord.

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Of course you fight the heresies in the Church and outside the Church, such as the Revolutionism depicted in films like "Agenda: Grinding America Down", which itself is a subset of the false religion of Secularism, centered through Freemasonry from it's springing up in the Protestant Revolution, which was ultimately started by the devil.

It is the evil one that is the source of these lies, of course.

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Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Finally, the world is too diverse to have a "Catholic state". And why, for that...
(Quote) David-364112 said:



Finally, the world is too diverse to have a "Catholic state". And why, for that matter, would anyone want this in the first place?


Jesus said AGAIN AND AGAIN that his kingdom was not of this world. So why must we ignore the godpels and focus on the rulebook?

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Because God wills it. Christ said "Preach the gospel to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". He did not say to sit idly by, with "tolerance" and "respect" for false religions. Catholics are supposed to be the light of the world.

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Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: You did offer a lot, but I would be happy with one credible and verifiable example tha...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

You did offer a lot, but I would be happy with one credible and verifiable example that a Catholic Monarch had a policy of forced conversion within his sovereign territory.

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By the way, since Queen Isabella was given as the example, I just want to mention that she was a saintly queen. Her cause for canonization was approved by the vatican and she was given the title of "Servant of God" in 1974.

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Feb 18th 2013 new

[quote]Paul-866591 said:

There is nothing wrong with kissing anyone's holy book as a sign of respect for the others belief. In no way did it signify an acceptance and approval of what is not really the word of God. Nothing wrong with taking part in a ecumenical prayer service.

I'm sorry to comment at this late time (I'm just reading through this thread), but offering signs of respect of other's false religions, and taking part in ecumenical prayer services, seems to me to be along the same lines as offering incense to false gods! How could this be right? The early Christian martyrs gave their lives rather than take part in prayers/worship of false gods, didn't they?

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Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Marcy-769874 said: Because God wills it. Christ said "Preach the gospel to all nations, baptizing them ...
(Quote) Marcy-769874 said:



Because God wills it. Christ said "Preach the gospel to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". He did not say to sit idly by, with "tolerance" and "respect" for false religions. Catholics are supposed to be the light of the world.

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That is all true, but as you yourself point out, He said to preach and baptize, not force, rule, and govern. Nor did He say anything about persecuting those who did not follow the true religion. Christ Himself points out that His kingdom is not of this world.

There is nothing wrong with the notion of a Catholic state or nation. But too many people have the mechanics backwards. We will get to that point by becoming a people of true believers. People will never become true believers just because the state tells them they have to believe something. People have been trying to convert others to this religion or that by the sword for thousands of years, and it tends to cause problems.

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