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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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The new Pope and the liturgy

Feb 17th 2013 new
Restoring the liturgy has been a passion of Pope Benedict's? What do you think his leaving the scene will do to the reform of the reform and to his greater permission for the traditional form of the Roman Mass?
Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Restoring the liturgy has been a passion of Pope Benedict's? What do you think his leaving the scene ...
(Quote) John-220051 said: Restoring the liturgy has been a passion of Pope Benedict's? What do you think his leaving the scene will do to the reform of the reform and to his greater permission for the traditional form of the Roman Mass?
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There is a need to be careful here. A derfinition of "restroing" is required.

If by "restoring" someone means the discarding of the Novus Ordo and reinstatemnt of the Tradioinal Latin Mass as the only permissable liturgy in the Western Church. The answer is no, Pope Bendict dioes not have a passion for restoring the liturgy.

What he has a passion for is restoring the reverance that often accompanied the TLM to the Liturgy. He has a passion to eliminate any vestiges of the abuses that today still too often take place. He is intereste in Western Catholics having a greater understanding of the Mass so they can see that, in their esssece, both the TLM and the NO are no different from each other. He is interested in restoring the primacy of Gregorian Chant.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, I beleive he would love to see a revision of the Novus Ordo by marrying the best of both liturgies

Feb 17th 2013 new
Benedict's departure will do exactly what God wills it to do to the liturgy. God's in charge - not us. We can't foist our agenda on the Church or the wider world then get angry when our will is not carried out.
Feb 18th 2013 new
(Quote) David-364112 said: Benedict's departure will do exactly what God wills it to do to the liturgy. God's in charge - not us. W...
(Quote) David-364112 said: Benedict's departure will do exactly what God wills it to do to the liturgy. God's in charge - not us. We can't foist our agenda on the Church or the wider world then get angry when our will is not carried out.
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Showing a bit of humility and acknowledging that the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms have been a total failure isn't foisting an agenda. What about the agenda pushed by the Modernists and postmodernists to accentuate the ugly that has contributed at least in part to the erosion of Catholic identity?
Feb 18th 2013 new

Lets hope that he is advising other on what direction to go and on continued focus on renewed reverence. Someone told me he was supposed to be an interim Pope. I do not know where they got this idea. Some are saying that the next pope is the final pope.

Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Showing a bit of humility and acknowledging that the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms have been...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

Showing a bit of humility and acknowledging that the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms have been a total failure isn't foisting an agenda. What about the agenda pushed by the Modernists and postmodernists to accentuate the ugly that has contributed at least in part to the erosion of Catholic identity?
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Don't worry about it. Last I checked, you and I aren't in charge of things. Right?


We reform the Church not by isolating ourselves with like-minded confreres, but by praying, living right, actively participating, setting a good example, and working to improve things.


It's not our place to prescribe policies for our next Pontiff or complaining that his predecessors didn't do enough to stem the unseemly tide of Modernism. We must trust that God's plan is unfolding exactly as God wills it and not according to our preferences or on our timetable. Fifty years from now this will be more apparent than it is now.

Feb 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Marian-83994 said: Lets hope that he is advising other on what direction to go and on continued focus on renewed rev...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:

Lets hope that he is advising other on what direction to go and on continued focus on renewed reverence. Someone told me he was supposed to be an interim Pope. I do not know where they got this idea. Some are saying that the next pope is the final pope.

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The speculations of various talking heads are meaningless. They have to fill the airtime with words and that's what they're doing. Just ignore the learned commentators.


The next Pope will be none other than the Holy father whom GOD selects for us. His actions will be those which God has ordained for him to carry out. Our job is to pray and obey. No "what if's".

Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Showing a bit of humility and acknowledging that the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms have been...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

Showing a bit of humility and acknowledging that the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms have been a total failure isn't foisting an agenda. What about the agenda pushed by the Modernists and postmodernists to accentuate the ugly that has contributed at least in part to the erosion of Catholic identity?
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+JMJ+

As is often said in this room, John ... no worries. In good time, the admission of the failure will come from a future pontif, and the Novus Ordo will be allowed to die on the vine. It's less than 200 years old, the standard set by St. Pius V, and sans its valid consecration, the Novus Ordo can only trace it's heritage back to late 1969. The % of priests who are ordained to celebrate the TLM continues to rise while the converse is true for the modern mass. There is also a grwoing number of priests ordained to say the NO that are switching. I've personally met 3 this year. One was diocesan and the other two from a religious order. All three informed their superiors that they could not in good conscience say the NO any more. All three are being accomodated by the local ordinary, and in one case the bishop canonically erected a personal parish for the priest where only the TLM is offered. I'm quite certain there are many stories like this around the world but you simply won't read about it in the "main stream" Catholic press. smile

Feb 19th 2013 new
(Quote) Joseph-2737 said: +JMJ+ As is often said in this room, John ... no worries. In good time, the admis...
(Quote) Joseph-2737 said:



+JMJ+



As is often said in this room, John ... no worries. In good time, the admission of the failure will come from a future pontif, and the Novus Ordo will be allowed to die on the vine. It's less than 200 years old, the standard set by St. Pius V, and sans its valid consecration, the Novus Ordo can only trace it's heritage back to late 1969. The % of priests who are ordained to celebrate the TLM continues to rise while the converse is true for the modern mass. There is also a grwoing number of priests ordained to say the NO that are switching. I've personally met 3 this year. One was diocesan and the other two from a religious order. All three informed their superiors that they could not in good conscience say the NO any more. All three are being accomodated by the local ordinary, and in one case the bishop canonically erected a personal parish for the priest where only the TLM is offered. I'm quite certain there are many stories like this around the world but you simply won't read about it in the "main stream" Catholic press.

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The Novus Ordo is an ecumenical stumbling block for unity with the Orthodox who view it as evidence that the Western Church has lost the faith.

But Joseph the older generation still controls the levers of power in the Vatican and in the College of Cardinals. Most of them came of age during and just after Vatican II.
Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Joseph-2737 said: +JMJ+ As is often said in this room, John ... no worries. In good time, the admission of ...
(Quote) Joseph-2737 said:

+JMJ+

As is often said in this room, John ... no worries. In good time, the admission of the failure will come from a future pontif, and the Novus Ordo will be allowed to die on the vine. It's less than 200 years old, the standard set by St. Pius V, and sans its valid consecration, the Novus Ordo can only trace it's heritage back to late 1969. The % of priests who are ordained to celebrate the TLM continues to rise while the converse is true for the modern mass. There is also a grwoing number of priests ordained to say the NO that are switching. I've personally met 3 this year0One was diocesan and the other two from a religious order. All three informed their superiors that they could not in good conscience say the NO any more. All three are being accomodated by the local ordinary, and in one case the bishop canonically erected a personal parish for the priest where only the TLM is offered. I'm quite certain there are many stories like this around the world but you simply won't read about it in the "main stream" Catholic press.

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Hey Joe I truly admire your optimism and appreciate your knowledgeable post to allay my (and johns) worries. I pray that you are right. The stakes are high. If one is to believe Pope Benedict has been quoted accurately then their appears to be an enemy within. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means and am totally disintersted in what the secular press has to say,however I listen and read very carefully what the brilliant Pope Benedict has to say. 600 yrs since the last pope abdicated and people want to convince me that it is only because this holy and good man is ill? My dearly departed grandmother use to say, when I was a young boy and I tried to pull a fast one on her. " I just didn't roll over here on the mayflower". I am a simple man. It doesn't take a doctorate in theology to recognize we live in tumultuous times. You said in good time. Well, my friend It is my opinion the good time must be now.

 

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