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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

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Feb 22nd 2013 new
(Quote) Richard-15378 said: Thanks Helen ... But it not like we need money ... Our church is in the black and we don't tak...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:




Thanks Helen ... But it not like we need money ... Our church is in the black and we don't take any funding from the Archdiocese ... In fact, some people think it's because they want our money to prop up another church that is in the red ... I don't know about that, but our church is just so warm and oldtime holy you just feel so contented and close to God there ... It is so sad, you are right!

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Oh yes Richard. If your church has savings, as we did, that could be a factor.
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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: Sacramentals are going down everywhere. I don't know about the Archdiocese of Philladelp...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

Sacramentals are going down everywhere. I don't know about the Archdiocese of Philladelphia, but I would like the Archdioces of New York to tell me of one church here which has increasing sacramentals? It's not about sacramentals, ist's about $$$$$$$$. Every Catholic should be advised- make sure your Church is self supporting and making a loooooooot of money for the Archdiocese or you can be next.

As part of our Archdiocese appeal process (the sham), we had to submit a business plan. A priest I consulted with, who was familiar with business plans, told me that we had to have a strong business plan that was going to make money. Do you have to do something like that for your Archdioces appeal, because I can give you some ideas. I just googled you church and it seems that you just got your notice a few weeks ago(correct me if I am wrong). Did you send your first letter of appeal to the Archdiocese? I think you have something like 15 days from the announceent to do so, but if could be different from Archdiocese to Archdiocese. Any announcement- at the mass homily, a newspaper report or any form of public statement is considered the announcement.
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Yes, on Jan 6 the Archdiocesan press release announced that several parishes were closing but that we and a few others were going to undergo additional review and that the decision re us would be expected in the spring, as our pastor protested their original plans ... Well, apparently this year spring amazingly came to Philly in late January, because three weeks after their initial release they announced our closing, oops, excuse me, our "merging" (they are very fond of the word merger rather than the word closing) ... So, we tried but they are like one big locomotive coming down the track and you better get out of the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

Appeal the parish merger and church closing. See canon 1218 regarding the closing of a church. Appealing the closing of a CHURCH has been more successful than appealing the closing of a PARISH but you should do both. The bishop must have grave reasons to close a church. In canon-law speak this is called relegation to profane use. Piacenza over at the CDF seems to have put an end to the mass church closings for the time being.

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Appeal the parish merger and church closing. See canon 1218 regarding the closing of a church. App...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:

Appeal the parish merger and church closing. See canon 1218 regarding the closing of a church. Appealing the closing of a CHURCH has been more successful than appealing the closing of a PARISH but you should do both. The bishop must have grave reasons to close a church. In canon-law speak this is called relegation to profane use. Piacenza over at the CDF seems to have put an end to the mass church closings for the time being.

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Thank you very much, Sean ,,, We will look into that .... I think that is in line with our thinking, that if we can keep the church and Masses we will be very happy!

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Richard-15378 said: You are definitely right on about that ... I wasn't too keen on the lawyerly approch...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:



You are definitely right on about that ... I wasn't too keen on the lawyerly approch but some of our folks wanted to give it a look ... You're right, even if they didn't let the process run its required length of time, so what, they would just run around and say Ok, you have 3 more months ...when the 3 months are up, boom , now you are officially done ...just a formality

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Get decrees from the archdiocese regarding the merger of parish and closing of the church. Sometimes those are contained in the same document. You should send a certified letter to the archdiocese asking for these decrees. You have 15 days after receiving notice of the decrees to appeal them to the bishop. If the bishop rejects your appeals, then I believe you have 30 days to appeal to the Congregation for the Clergy, not the CDF as I wrote in an earlier post. There is a certain canon lawyer in Rome you should get to handle the appeals, especially if you have to appeal to the Vatican. Getting this particular canon lawyer is your best approach. At any rate, you have to appeal the parish merger and church closing to have any hope at all. If you do not follow Canon Law in trying to stop the parish merger and church closing, you do not have much hope at all.

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

i am sorry to hear about your church closing, and one especially that is 103 years old. we have a st .francis church in springfield that is very old, also with the stained windows and huge altar. the catholic church is selling prime land and buildings, more than likely to pay for the suit(s) against them. we have a large land tract on reed road in springfield that the church owns which is vacant! why don't they sell this tract for millions, instead of a beautiful church that has been attended and loved for all these years.

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

Yeah, don't you just love that word, "merge". The parish that my entire family was baptized in was "merged" with a parish 5 miles away; the furnishings were sold, the building was torn down and the land was sold. The amazing thing is that our parish was in the black and the neighboring parish we merged with was in the RED. The diocesan plan was for the people from our parish to become "contributing" members of the merged parish and bring them out of the red. Why not just "merge" the neighboring parish with our parish and SHUT their parish down? It could NOT have been the value of the land because the land on either site was worth the same. Our parish had MORE contributing members than the neighboring parish. The only difference between the two parishes is that our parish supported the local Catholic high school and the other parish didn't. Evidentally the diocese doesn't support parishes that contribute to a Catholic education eyepopping. I am very sorry that you are having to go through this. One of my neighbors was so distraught that he died of a heart attack the day the announcement of the "merger" was made. Instead of becoming a contributing member of the parish 5 miles away most parishioners started attending mass at the university Newman Center 25 miles away, in a DIFFERENT diocese (across state lines). They made sure that their contributions would never go to the diocese that shut their parish down. They continue to support their local Catholic high school by contributing directly to the school. BTW, these are NOT financially poor people, as a matter of fact they are quite wealthy. Any efforts to thwart the diocesan decision were met with contempt (similar to your experience). Because of our parishes experience other local parishes braced for their turn and had lawyers waiting in the wings so when their were rumors that their parish could be on the chopping block they went into action, threatening the diocese before they could make a decision. Sorry, it is likely too late for that and your parishes fate has already been determined. Blessings to you...

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Feb 22nd 2013 new


Bishops monkey with debt and will merge parishes in the red with wealthy parishes, sometimes in order to get the wealthy parish in the red so that it can be closed and its assets taken and sold off. In Boston the archdiocese devised a scheme to suppress parishes, whereby the assets of suppressed parishes went to the archdiocese instead of the parish that parishioners from a closed parish joined. Load 'em up with debt and close 'em. Just like the insolvent banks in Europe loaded national governments with debt and now taxpayers are bailing out the governments.

(Quote) Joan-529855 said: Yeah, don't you just love that word, "merge". The parish that my entire family was b...
(Quote) Joan-529855 said:

Yeah, don't you just love that word, "merge". The parish that my entire family was baptized in was "merged" with a parish 5 miles away; the furnishings were sold, the building was torn down and the land was sold. The amazing thing is that our parish was in the black and the neighboring parish we merged with was in the RED. The diocesan plan was for the people from our parish to become "contributing" members of the merged parish and bring them out of the red. Why not just "merge" the neighboring parish with our parish and SHUT their parish down? It could NOT have been the value of the land because the land on either site was worth the same. Our parish had MORE contributing members than the neighboring parish. The only difference between the two parishes is that our parish supported the local Catholic high school and the other parish didn't. Evidentally the diocese doesn't support parishes that contribute to a Catholic education . I am very sorry that you are having to go through this. One of my neighbors was so distraught that he died of a heart attack the day the announcement of the "merger" was made. Instead of becoming a contributing member of the parish 5 miles away most parishioners started attending mass at the university Newman Center 25 miles away, in a DIFFERENT diocese (across state lines). They made sure that their contributions would never go to the diocese that shut their parish down. They continue to support their local Catholic high school by contributing directly to the school. BTW, these are NOT financially poor people, as a matter of fact they are quite wealthy. Any efforts to thwart the diocesan decision were met with contempt (similar to your experience). Because of our parishes experience other local parishes braced for their turn and had lawyers waiting in the wings so when their were rumors that their parish could be on the chopping block they went into action, threatening the diocese before they could make a decision. Sorry, it is likely too late for that and your parishes fate has already been determined. Blessings to you...

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Bishops monkey with debt and will merge parishes in the red with wealthy parishes, sometimes i...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:


Bishops monkey with debt and will merge parishes in the red with wealthy parishes, sometimes in order to get the wealthy parish in the red so that it can be closed and its assets taken and sold off. In Boston the archdiocese devised a scheme to suppress parishes, whereby the assets of suppressed parishes went to the archdiocese instead of the parish that parishioners from a closed parish joined. Load 'em up with debt and close 'em. Just like the insolvent banks in Europe loaded national governments with debt and now taxpayers are bailing out the governments.

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Some of our people think it is the other way around down here ... take a parish in the black and close it, use the assets to wipe out or decrease the debt of the other parish ,,, they say tha tif they closed the debtor parish they still would hav ethe financial obligations ...this way they can pay off the debt ... But who knows what the real machinations are behind the scenes ... Oh, man!!!

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Bishops monkey with debt and will merge parishes in the red with wealthy parishes, sometimes i...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:


Bishops monkey with debt and will merge parishes in the red with wealthy parishes, sometimes in order to get the wealthy parish in the red so that it can be closed and its assets taken and sold off. In Boston the archdiocese devised a scheme to suppress parishes, whereby the assets of suppressed parishes went to the archdiocese instead of the parish that parishioners from a closed parish joined. Load 'em up with debt and close 'em. Just like the insolvent banks in Europe loaded national governments with debt and now taxpayers are bailing out the governments.

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Some of our people think it is the other way around down here ... take a parish in the black and close it, use the assets to wipe out or decrease the debt of the other parish ,,, they say that if they closed the debtor parish they still would have the financial obligations ...this way they can pay off the debt ... But who knows what the real machinations are behind the scenes ... Oh, man!!!

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