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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is dedicated to those who are facing the challenge of raising children without the support of a spouse. This is a place to share ideas and lend mutual support.

Saint Rita is known to be a patroness for abused wives and mourning women.
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02/14/2013 new

(Quote) Carlos-923941 said: Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs. Sex is a gift...
(Quote) Carlos-923941 said:


Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs. Sex is a gift given to us by God and its only allowed inside legal matrimony even the Holy Scriptures testifiy it. So please catechise him.

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Face reality, catechism is no panecea for the reality of life, or the aetiology and pathology of cancer. So face the facts science is better/ more realistic solution to disease than the Catechism of the Church. Thats why the Vatican has doctors of Medicine and the Church owns many hospitals staffed by many Catholics.

02/22/2013 new

(Quote) Carlos-923941 said: Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs. Sex is a gift...
(Quote) Carlos-923941 said:


Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs. Sex is a gift given to us by God and its only allowed inside legal matrimony even the Holy Scriptures testifiy it. So please catechise him.

--hide--


hey carlos, how about the husband who has an affair with a lady. his wife did not know about it at that tpoint. so 4 years later finds out she has hpv, stage 4? shutting your legs, for God's sake!

02/22/2013 new

found this out today ba a call from the girl. she is 40!!

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: (Quote) Andrew-899116 said: After reviewing the British Colombia article in que...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Quote:
Andrew-899116 said: After reviewing the British Colombia article in question, I can perhaps explain to our readers that careful scrutiny of the inclusion criteria for their review showed inclusion of only small scale clinical trial numbers and excludes large amounts of post -market data. The statistical methods used are inferior in power to the meta-analyses I have shared previously and the conclusion is heavily editorialized. A previous poster made a good point in that a Review study published by an Ophthalmology department no less lacks the heft of a CDC multi-center trial and review. In response to the previous poster's "disconcertment" I would say that I am not ignoring this particular study. In fact it's aim seems to be to temper specific claims such as the 70% reduction in cervical cancer rates. That number however is impossible to validate in a clinical trial as the only way to design such a study would be to compare a vaccinated and unvaccinated group while exposing both strains to HPV which is clearly unethical. For this reason studying epidemiological data for cervical cancer rates (and a change in response to vaccination) will only ever be correlational without any ability to sort out other confounding population variables. Correlation is not equal to causation. We know that HPV causes cancer and we know the vaccine is protective against HPV. The correlation between these in driving, vaccination is sound, the article simply tempers exaggerated claims of

Weeel you could design a trial, I am not saying I would agree with it or encourage it, but it has been done before. That is use the Developed world against the Developing world. Vaccinate the developed world, and not the developing world and after a couple of years, say 10 years compare cancer rates. As I say not exactly PC or ethical but it has been done before.

1962 to 1973 the effect of "Agent Orange" which is a compound of many substances most are responsible for birth defects and cancers.

or the US Army tests in 1950s of PCP on servicemen.

so it does have a historical place. And Lister tested His smallpox on himself!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought

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Just wanted to say Edward Jenner discovered the smallpox vaccine from milkmaids exposed to cowpox virus were found to be immune to smallpox. So he tested it on a little boy by inoculating him with cowpox;) Not ethical today, of course. Lister was a physician who started the use of antiseptics which saved thousands of lives brought on by L. Pasteur's discovery of how micro-organisms cause infection.

"vacca" means cow. K, onto HPV vaccination after my little history lessen laughing eyepopping wink
Ah, I learned so much in microbiology this year! LOL If I were younger, I would totally be a biologist;)

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Helen-881220 said: (Quote) Carlos-923941 said: Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vacc...
(Quote) Helen-881220 said:

Quote:
Carlos-923941 said:


Hi Lisa tell the doctor that the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs. Sex is a gift given to us by God and its only allowed inside legal matrimony even the Holy Scriptures testifiy it. So please catechise him.



hey carlos, how about the husband who has an affair with a lady. his wife did not know about it at that tpoint. so 4 years later finds out she has hpv, stage 4? shutting your legs, for God's sake!

--hide--



Oh goodness. Let's not pretend here as the statistics of young adult men and women are having sex before marriage at soaring percentages. Yes, we can teach them the 10 commandments, but let's say we don't live in a perfect world. I don't think a Dr. would think you are too intelligent by telling him "the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs". Eeks, that wouldn't look too good for yourself. We can all hope and pray that our beloved children wait until they are married, but things do happen in life. Look around. We are all not perfect.

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Hi, Peter,1. I am well aware of who wrote the study and to which department of ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Hi, Peter,

1. I am well aware of who wrote the study and to which department of UBC they belong.

2. The FDA is made up of a group of fallible individuals, and your question regarding whether or not I have better knowledge than they is invalid. I am familiar with the procedure of getting a medicine approved, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, as it is vaccination of which we are discussing.

3. I wonder if your third point is a bit lacking in major logic (criteriology). What good reason do you have to doubt the study whose abstract I quoted?

4. On your fourth point, a vaccine and a drug are dissimilar medical avenues in regard to disease or pathology. A vaccine, by definition treats no disease, but rather changes the reaction of the sentient body to exposure to a specific (and sometimes correlative) pathogen. A drug, as used in the classical sense, is a medicine or chemical application used as therapy upon a sentient body experiencing disease.

The HPV vaccine doesn't heal anything. Even the CDC Pinkbook online will tell you that.

www.cdc.gov

The point that I am trying to get at is that one "authority" says one thing and another "authority" says something contrary or contradictory to the first. How is it then that simple folk are to come to a certain conclusion that the HPV vaccine is a safe one?

Also, I have a problem with the quadrivalent (Gardasil) and bivalent (Cervarix) HPV vaccines on another level. If these vaccines are designed to create immunogenic response in the body only to those types of HPV (6, 11, 16 and 18) which are sexually transmitted, and thought to be the cause of anogenital cancers, out of all the 100-120 types of HPV, then why is there any push to mass-vaccinate 11 and 12-year-old males and females? The problem is not a pathological one at all, but rather a moral one...so how is a medical response to fix the moral problem?

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A drug is by definition anything that triggers a response in vivo or in vitro, which means that a vaccine fit very well in that box. That is taught during the very first class in pharmacology and also explained in the first chapter of any book on the subject.

You based your argumentation on the abstract of an article published in a non reputable journal. Not even the whole article. Seriously, just because something shows up in PubMed search doesn't make it good science.

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: You based your argumentation on the abstract of ...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

You based your argumentation on the abstract of an article published in a non reputable journal. Not even the whole article. Seriously, just because something shows up in PubMed search doesn't make it good science.

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And the fact that it might not be good science doesn't mean that it isn't. If there's a problem with the analysis in the article, explain what it is, not what it might be. So far you're just blowing smoke.

02/23/2013 new
(Quote) David-364112 said: OK then. In SOME states it's eithe rlaw or regulation that kids be vaccinated. There are exce...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


OK then. In SOME states it's eithe rlaw or regulation that kids be vaccinated. There are exceptions. The Amish and the JW's can claim religious reasons. My clients' problem was that they didn't claim a religious reason. I told them to do that because the case would be dismissed. But no. We had to present a loony argument to the agency and finally to the court just because this is what they believed.


Why are there so many crazies among the faithful? Oh well. It's good they're here rather than elsewhere - annoying as they can be,

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David Gotta love the legal profession. Another story for your one-day book. It will be classified as fiction because no one could believe these stories ACTUALLY happened.
02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: And the fact that it might not be good s...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

And the fact that it might not be good science doesn't mean that it isn't. If there's a problem with the analysis in the article, explain what it is, not what it might be. So far you're just blowing smoke.

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The burden of proof lies with whom makes the claim. I didn't make the intial claim and based it upon an abstract. All I did was to warn about the dangers of not being critical regarding the sources of information. Have you even read the article yet?

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Cathy-564420 said: Oh goodness. Let's not pretend here as the statistics of young adult men and women are having...
(Quote) Cathy-564420 said:

Oh goodness. Let's not pretend here as the statistics of young adult men and women are having sex before marriage at soaring percentages. Yes, we can teach them the 10 commandments, but let's say we don't live in a perfect world. I don't think a Dr. would think you are too intelligent by telling him "the best vaccine to prevent HPV is shutting legs". Eeks, that wouldn't look too good for yourself. We can all hope and pray that our beloved children wait until they are married, but things do happen in life. Look around. We are all not perfect.

--hide--

My original reasoning when I posted this thread was, HPV is one of the natural consequences for having sex outside of marriage. As such, when one chooses to do that, one also chooses to accept the chance of contracting HPV (and other STDs). The fact that choices have consequences is a good thing, and I don't think they should be separated from each other.

Vaccinating a girl against HPV is a no-brainer because like has been stated before in this thread, a girl may get HPV from her less-than-perfect husband through no fault of her own. I didn't realize that guys also can get cancer from HPV, so I'm more open to the idea since HPV is more effective when administered early, and it's good to be protected from diseases you may get through no fault of your own.

But the logic that realistically most teenagers will have sex so let's protect them from the natural consequences of their choices still doesn't sit well with me. If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to accept the consequences (including not only STDs but also pregnancy and everything that has to do with raising a child).

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