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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

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Don't know exactly where to turn with this information now except to prayer and to ask others to pray. We need to PRAY HARD for the cardinals to elect an orthodox Pope who will not be afraid to do the weeding that apparently badly needs to be done WITHIN the Church.

www.churchmilitant.tv

Here's a link to the article written by Fr. Dariusz Oko, Ph.D. that Michael Voris references in this video: www.churchmilitant.tv

02/23/2013 new

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"...We witness a terrible phenomenon – it turns out the comfort of homosexual offenders is more important than the fate of children and youth, the fate of the whole Church. If that was done deliberately, that would be high treason, the Church would be guilty of betraying the youth!"

www.churchmilitant.tv

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: + "...We witness a terrible phenomenon – it turns out the comfort of homosexual o...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:

+

"...We witness a terrible phenomenon – it turns out the comfort of homosexual offenders is more important than the fate of children and youth, the fate of the whole Church. If that was done deliberately, that would be high treason, the Church would be guilty of betraying the youth!"

www.churchmilitant.tv

--hide--


Jan, this is a hard topic to approach. I don't even think they should make a difference between pedophilia and
epedophilia. They are both sex crimes and should most definitely NOT be within Church behavior. Our church
is being challenged and tested.

02/23/2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Jan, this is a hard topic to approach. I don't even think they should make a diffe...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Jan, this is a hard topic to approach. I don't even think they should make a difference between pedophilia and
epedophilia. They are both sex crimes and should most definitely NOT be within Church behavior. Our church
is being challenged and tested.

--hide--

They are both crimes indeed. You are quite correct.

However, while a pedophile will potentially strike at either sex of person below the age of puberty, ephebophilia is distinctly associated with male homosexuality and their "subculture" celebrates it.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Jan, this is a hard topic to approach. I don't even think they should make a diffe...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Jan, this is a hard topic to approach. I don't even think they should make a difference between pedophilia and
epedophilia. They are both sex crimes and should most definitely NOT be within Church behavior. Our church
is being challenged and tested.

--hide--


+


It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to understand. I muse in my mind sometimes, wondering, trying to understand. I'm not stating the following as fact - just one of my wonderings: The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful (and I believe that they are). People in the Church have also taught that there are two life vocations to choose from: the married vocation, or religious life. What is a Catholic to do who suffers with same sex attraction? Especially if to admit thier inclination will most likely ostrasize them from loved ones? I am aware of Courage - a great group I'm sure. But pre-Courage - what did people do? It appears that more than a few entered religious life.


An Eastern Orthodox priest I knew (who converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy way before the clergy sexual abuse scandals broke) said he believed that if the Catholic Church allowed their priests to marry they would attract more manly men. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have not heard of this problem (pedophilia or epedophilia) being this rampant in the Orthodox churches - or teh Protestant communities for that matter. Perhpas he had a point.


The problem now is - what else can we do but educate ourselves and pray? A friend reminded me today that this is Christ's Church and we have Our Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints to intercede for us - but this is still very difficult. I commented that it is amazing that anyone comes into the Church today with all of this going on (not excluding awareness of my own personal unholiness in the limited circle of people whose lives I touch) and my friend replied exact evidence that this IS Christ's Church - people ARE still coming into the Church - God is still pouring out the grace souls need through His Church to bring us Home, and He will give us an answer to this crisis.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: They are both crimes indeed. You are quite correct. However, while a pedophile w...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

They are both crimes indeed. You are quite correct.

However, while a pedophile will potentially strike at either sex of person below the age of puberty, ephebophilia is distinctly associated with male homosexuality and their "subculture" celebrates it.

--hide--


Yes, this is what I understand as well Steven. Which is one of the reasons why I think the decision made by the Church not to admit men with strong homosexual tendencies to the seminaries is very wise. If the Polish priest who wrote the paper I linked to in my first post (and he apparently has studied this issue quite a bit) 80% of the clergy sexual abuse cases in the U.S. were of a homosexual - not pedophilia - nature. If the seminaries follow the guidelines established by the Church on admissions of candidates, it seems that would translate into eliminating the potential abuse of our children in the U.S. by clergy to the tune of 80% - once our clergy is purified anyway.


Here's a link to the document issued in 2005 affirming no men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should be admitted to the seminary and teh Church's thinking on why: www.vatican.va


The next problem - are these guidelines being followed? Or are there too many homosexual clergy still in place that may seek to override these guidelines? Back to what my friend said - this is Christ's Church, we have our Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints to pray and intercede for us. While we're seeking a cleansing of our Church through prayer, may God be good to us and purify our own hearts and minds as well.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: + It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to ...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:


+


It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to understand. I muse in my mind sometimes, wondering, trying to understand. I'm not stating the following as fact - just one of my wonderings: The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful (and I believe that they are). People in the Church have also taught that there are two life vocations to choose from: the married vocation, or religious life. What is a Catholic to do who suffers with same sex attraction? Especially if to admit thier inclination will most likely ostrasize them from loved ones? I am aware of Courage - a great group I'm sure. But pre-Courage - what did people do? It appears that more than a few entered religious life.


An Eastern Orthodox priest I knew (who converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy way before the clergy sexual abuse scandals broke) said he believed that if the Catholic Church allowed their priests to marry they would attract more manly men. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have not heard of this problem (pedophilia or epedophilia) being this rampant in the Orthodox churches - or teh Protestant communities for that matter. Perhpas he had a point.


The problem now is - what else can we do but educate ourselves and pray? A friend reminded me today that this is Christ's Church and we have Our Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints to intercede for us - but this is still very difficult. I commented that it is amazing that anyone comes into the Church today with all of this going on (not excluding awareness of my own personal unholiness in the limited circle of people whose lives I touch) and my friend replied exact evidence that this IS Christ's Church - people ARE still coming into the Church - God is still pouring out the grace souls need through His Church to bring us Home, and He will give us an answer to this crisis.

--hide--

The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults. This type of abuse most often occurs in the home. Most often in a home where the couple is not married and the male is not the natural father of the child or youth involved.

The study that US Bishops had done clearly labeled the major part of the problem on homosexual priests. Why the Bishops have not spoken out specifically to that issue is hard to understand.

Although part of it may be the fact that society in general has a well entrenched Homosexual lobby that has largely succeeded in getting society to accept this perversion as an acceptable norm and positive good.

As someone has already noted, it is critical to properly label what was the root of the problem, pedophilia or epedophilia, because whereas pedophilia is a crime that men or women of any sexual orientation commit, epedophilia most often has a homosexual oriented person involved.

If the basic cause of the problem is ignored, than any solution adopted will be less than optimal because it will not be attacking the root cause.

What I find so interesting, in my younger years and until the 1970's, I had known and had contact with hundreds of priest and candidates for the priesthood. Not a single one sexually abused any of us or anyone I knew. Not one showed any homosexual tendencies. The only abuse of any kind I saw were those Jesuits in High school who believed a good solid slug to the head was an appropriate response to disobedience or disorderly conduct. And that can only be labeled as abuse in light of today's standards. It was SOP in society in those long ago days. The nuns did it in school and when you got home your Dad did because you did something that got you punished by the nuns or priests.

Of course now days, a parent doing that or teacher in school would be reported to Child Protective Services.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults. This type of abuse most often occurs in the home. Most often in a home where the couple is not married and the male is not the natural father of the child or youth involved.

The study that US Bishops had done clearly labeled the major part of the problem on homosexual priests. Why the Bishops have not spoken out specifically to that issue is hard to understand.

Although part of it may be the fact that society in general has a well entrenched Homosexual lobby that has largely succeeded in getting society to accept this perversion as an acceptable norm and positive good.

As someone has already noted, it is critical to properly label what was the root of the problem, pedophilia or epedophilia, because whereas pedophilia is a crime that men or women of any sexual orientation commit, epedophilia most often has a homosexual oriented person involved.

If the basic cause of the problem is ignored, than any solution adopted will be less than optimal because it will not be attacking the root cause.

What I find so interesting, in my younger years and until the 1970's, I had known and had contact with hundreds of priest and candidates for the priesthood. Not a single one sexually abused any of us or anyone I knew. Not one showed any homosexual tendencies. The only abuse of any kind I saw were those Jesuits in High school who believed a good solid slug to the head was an appropriate response to disobedience or disorderly conduct. And that can only be labeled as abuse in light of today's standards. It was SOP in society in those long ago days. The nuns did it in school and when you got home your Dad did because you did something that got you punished by the nuns or priests.

Of course now days, a parent doing that or teacher in school would be reported to Child Protective Services.

--hide--


Paul - did you read this article? Am curious to know what you think of it: http://www.churchmilitant.tv



02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults. This type of abuse most often occurs in the home. Most often in a home where the couple is not married and the male is not the natural father of the child or youth involved.

The study that US Bishops had done clearly labeled the major part of the problem on homosexual priests. Why the Bishops have not spoken out specifically to that issue is hard to understand.

Although part of it may be the fact that society in general has a well entrenched Homosexual lobby that has largely succeeded in getting society to accept this perversion as an acceptable norm and positive good.

As someone has already noted, it is critical to properly label what was the root of the problem, pedophilia or epedophilia, because whereas pedophilia is a crime that men or women of any sexual orientation commit, epedophilia most often has a homosexual oriented person involved.

If the basic cause of the problem is ignored, than any solution adopted will be less than optimal because it will not be attacking the root cause.

What I find so interesting, in my younger years and until the 1970's, I had known and had contact with hundreds of priest and candidates for the priesthood. Not a single one sexually abused any of us or anyone I knew. Not one showed any homosexual tendencies. The only abuse of any kind I saw were those Jesuits in High school who believed a good solid slug to the head was an appropriate response to disobedience or disorderly conduct. And that can only be labeled as abuse in light of today's standards. It was SOP in society in those long ago days. The nuns did it in school and when you got home your Dad did because you did something that got you punished by the nuns or priests.

Of course now days, a parent doing that or teacher in school would be reported to Child Protective Services.

--hide--


Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults" but, truly, I have never once heard of this problem in Orthodox Churches.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: (Quote) Paul-866591 said: The fact is that as terrible as the scand...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:

Quote:
Paul-866591 said:

The fact is that as terrible as the scandal has been for the Church, the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults. This type of abuse most often occurs in the home. Most often in a home where the couple is not married and the male is not the natural father of the child or youth involved.

The study that US Bishops had done clearly labeled the major part of the problem on homosexual priests. Why the Bishops have not spoken out specifically to that issue is hard to understand.

Although part of it may be the fact that society in general has a well entrenched Homosexual lobby that has largely succeeded in getting society to accept this perversion as an acceptable norm and positive good.

As someone has already noted, it is critical to properly label what was the root of the problem, pedophilia or epedophilia, because whereas pedophilia is a crime that men or women of any sexual orientation commit, epedophilia most often has a homosexual oriented person involved.

If the basic cause of the problem is ignored, than any solution adopted will be less than optimal because it will not be attacking the root cause.

What I find so interesting, in my younger years and until the 1970's, I had known and had contact with hundreds of priest and candidates for the priesthood. Not a single one sexually abused any of us or anyone I knew. Not one showed any homosexual tendencies. The only abuse of any kind I saw were those Jesuits in High school who believed a good solid slug to the head was an appropriate response to disobedience or disorderly conduct. And that can only be labeled as abuse in light of today's standards. It was SOP in society in those long ago days. The nuns did it in school and when you got home your Dad did because you did something that got you punished by the nuns or priests.

Of course now days, a parent doing that or teacher in school would be reported to Child Protective Services.



Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults" but, truly, I have never once heard of this problem in Orthodox Churches.

--hide--


And I have never heard of this problem in the Protestant communities - not of the magnitude we have seen in worldwide in the Catholic Church.

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