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I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not about the legitimacy or laziness factor. I have tried to find it on line and haven't been successful:

Where is it written that explains or pronounces the "time" of a vigil Mass must be after a certain hour? IE, does a 2:30 pm Saturday afternoon Mass also count as your Sunday privilege? (I don't like the word obligation, it is a privilege to attend Mass)

Please give me links and cold hard facts!
Mar 10th 2013 new
Unfortunately, it seems that the Holy See has not clarified this. According to an "Ask an Apologist" post at Catholic Answers from 2004, the common opinion is that 4 PM or later on Saturday satisfies the obligation. But there is no hard and fast rule saying that. forums.catholic.com
Mar 10th 2013 new
I will add that a couple of years ago, I went on pilgrimage with my diocese to the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in D.C. We had a Saturday afternoon Mass - before 4 PM - and our Bishop, who celebrated the Mass, told us we had fulfilled our Sunday obligation. I slept in the next day, after the long bus ride home.
Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not abou...
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not about the legitimacy or laziness factor. I have tried to find it on line and haven't been successful:

Where is it written that explains or pronounces the "time" of a vigil Mass must be after a certain hour? IE, does a 2:30 pm Saturday afternoon Mass also count as your Sunday privilege? (I don't like the word obligation, it is a privilege to attend Mass)

Please give me links and cold hard facts!
--hide--



Joanna,


As far as the time of 4:00, I am at a loss.

The tradition is tied to Vespers, which is the evening prayer and which is recognized as the liturgical start of the next day. If you are abstaining from something during Lent, you are free to enjoy it after Vespers (and throughout Sunday). (My understanding is that there is a link between Vespers and sunset, although I don't think that Vespers "moves" with the times that the sun sets.)

As far as the 2:30 Mass fulfilling an obligation (or a priviledge, as you will), you can forget about it. (It would require a dispensation.)

It should be noted that the original intent of the Saturday evening Mass was to assist workers who had jobs on Sunday that made it difficult if not impossible to fulfill their Sunday obligation. (This was the intent of Pope Pius XII when he pushed for the idea and it was the original intent of the Church when the evening Mass was introduced in 1970.)

It seems that like everything else allowed Catholics in this country, an inch was given and a yard was taken.

From Father Ray Blake's blog (marymagdalen.blogspot.com

I am in favour of offering Mass at times people will come, in the 1970s when the
"Anticipated Mass" was introduced it was for those unable to attend Mass on the
Lord's Day itself, there was mention of doctors and nurses and people who had to
work. Now most seem to have people who no longer work but want Sundays free of
Mass for some other purpose.
For the most part the Saturday Mass is not the
one which is attended by young people or by those who are actually forced to
work.


Mar 10th 2013 new
(Quote) William-607613 said: Joanna,As far as the time of 4:00, I am at a loss. The tradition is tied to...
(Quote) William-607613 said:




Joanna,


As far as the time of 4:00, I am at a loss.

The tradition is tied to Vespers, which is the evening prayer and which is recognized as the liturgical start of the next day. If you are abstaining from something during Lent, you are free to enjoy it after Vespers (and throughout Sunday). (My understanding is that there is a link between Vespers and sunset, although I don't think that Vespers "moves" with the times that the sun sets.)

As far as the 2:30 Mass fulfilling an obligation (or a priviledge, as you will), you can forget about it. (It would require a dispensation.)

It should be noted that the original intent of the Saturday evening Mass was to assist workers who had jobs on Sunday that made it difficult if not impossible to fulfill their Sunday obligation. (This was the intent of Pope Pius XII when he pushed for the idea and it was the original intent of the Church when the evening Mass was introduced in 1970.)

It seems that like everything else allowed Catholics in this country, an inch was given and a yard was taken.

From Father Ray Blake's blog (marymagdalen.blogspot.com

I am in favour of offering Mass at times people will come, in the 1970s when the
"Anticipated Mass" was introduced it was for those unable to attend Mass on the
Lord's Day itself, there was mention of doctors and nurses and people who had to
work. Now most seem to have people who no longer work but want Sundays free of
Mass for some other purpose.
For the most part the Saturday Mass is not the
one which is attended by young people or by those who are actually forced to
work.


--hide--


Thank you for your input. As someone who works a lot of weekends, I make Mass whenever I can so knowing there are alternatives is consoling.
Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not abou...
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not about the legitimacy or laziness factor. I have tried to find it on line and haven't been successful:

Where is it written that explains or pronounces the "time" of a vigil Mass must be after a certain hour? IE, does a 2:30 pm Saturday afternoon Mass also count as your Sunday privilege? (I don't like the word obligation, it is a privilege to attend Mass)

Please give me links and cold hard facts!
--hide--

Try

http://www.catholic.com

to find the answer. I believe the General Instructions for the Roman Missal specifies a starting time of no earlier than 4 PM.

Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: Joanna,As far as the time of 4:00, I am at a loss. The traditi...
(Quote) William-607613 said:




Joanna,


As far as the time of 4:00, I am at a loss.

The tradition is tied to Vespers, which is the evening prayer and which is recognized as the liturgical start of the next day. If you are abstaining from something during Lent, you are free to enjoy it after Vespers (and throughout Sunday). (My understanding is that there is a link between Vespers and sunset, although I don't think that Vespers "moves" with the times that the sun sets.)

As far as the 2:30 Mass fulfilling an obligation (or a priviledge, as you will), you can forget about it. (It would require a dispensation.)

It should be noted that the original intent of the Saturday evening Mass was to assist workers who had jobs on Sunday that made it difficult if not impossible to fulfill their Sunday obligation. (This was the intent of Pope Pius XII when he pushed for the idea and it was the original intent of the Church when the evening Mass was introduced in 1970.)

It seems that like everything else allowed Catholics in this country, an inch was given and a yard was taken.

From Father Ray Blake's blog (marymagdalen.blogspot.com

I am in favour of offering Mass at times people will come, in the 1970s when the
"Anticipated Mass" was introduced it was for those unable to attend Mass on the
Lord's Day itself, there was mention of doctors and nurses and people who had to
work. Now most seem to have people who no longer work but want Sundays free of
Mass for some other purpose.
For the most part the Saturday Mass is not the
one which is attended by young people or by those who are actually forced to
work.


--hide--

AS Edward noted in his note, His Bishop who celebrated the Mass at 2 PM and tole them it fulfilled their Sunday obligation would qualify as a dispensation.

The only question as to the validity of that dispensation would be that unless Washington DC was his diocese, the rules of the Diocese prevail not that of a visiting Bishop since he would have no jurisdiction.

Its similar to the rule for Friday Abstinence. In the US, except for the Fridays of Lent the US Conference of Bishops have dispensed the faithful from the rule. But if you were visiting a foreign city where the local Bishops have not dispensed, you are obliged to abstain.

Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not abou...
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: I know why we have the vigil Mass (Jewish Day ends and begins at sundown) and this question is not about the legitimacy or laziness factor. I have tried to find it on line and haven't been successful:

Where is it written that explains or pronounces the "time" of a vigil Mass must be after a certain hour? IE, does a 2:30 pm Saturday afternoon Mass also count as your Sunday privilege? (I don't like the word obligation, it is a privilege to attend Mass)

Please give me links and cold hard facts!
--hide--

Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.

The New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law states that 'evening' should be understood to be any time from 4:00 PM onward.

"Rule VI. If the circumstance calls for it as necessary, We grant to the local Ordinaries the right to permit the celebration of Mass in the evening, as we said, but in such wise that the Mass shall not begin before four o'clock in the afternoon, "

CHRISTUS DOMINUS, Concerning The Discipline To Be Observed With Respect To The Eucharistic Fast, Pope Pius XII
www.ewtn.com

Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: AS Edward noted in his note, His Bishop who celebrated the Mass at 2 PM and tole them it ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

AS Edward noted in his note, His Bishop who celebrated the Mass at 2 PM and tole them it fulfilled their Sunday obligation would qualify as a dispensation.

The only question as to the validity of that dispensation would be that unless Washington DC was his diocese, the rules of the Diocese prevail not that of a visiting Bishop since he would have no jurisdiction.

Its similar to the rule for Friday Abstinence. In the US, except for the Fridays of Lent the US Conference of Bishops have dispensed the faithful from the rule. But if you were visiting a foreign city where the local Bishops have not dispensed, you are obliged to abstain.

--hide--

Edwards 's dispensation by his own bishop in another city may be valid since the bishop was issuing the dispensation to his own subjects.

The USCCB has not dispensed the Friday abstinence requirement; they have modified the requirement to allow for an alternate form of penance, as pemitted by canon 1253.

In general, travelers are not bound by local law when away from their domicile or quasi-domecile. The sitaution with abstinence is a little different, as it is the universal law; however, I think it would be treated as a local for the travelers since it differs from that law that applies in their domicile.

Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Its similar to the rule for Friday Abstinence. In the US, except for the Frid...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:


Its similar to the rule for Friday Abstinence. In the US, except for the Fridays of Lent the US Conference of Bishops have dispensed the faithful from the rule. But if you were visiting a foreign city where the local Bishops have not dispensed, you are obliged to abstain.

--hide--


That's true.

If St. Patrick's Day, March 17th, falls on a Friday (March 17th is always in Lent), the archbishop of New York will often dispense with the requirement to abstain from meat on that day.

When they announce this in church, they make it quite clear that the dispensation is only good in the archdiocese of NY. One cannot go back to NJ or CT and eat meat that day.

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