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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: In fact the bible directs the eating of the sacrificed animals by the priests. So any att...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

In fact the bible directs the eating of the sacrificed animals by the priests. So any attempt to base an argument for being a vegan on the bible, fails and falls flat on its face as there is nothing there to support it.

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Not to mention, Christ ate Passover. They eat lamb at passover.

If red meat is good enough for Christ as man, then its good enough for the rest of us.

I bet Our Lady cooks the best lambchops.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Bob-59786 said: Cheese and nuts seem to work very well healing wounds.
(Quote) Bob-59786 said:

Cheese and nuts seem to work very well healing wounds.

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Not if you're lactose intolerant or allergic to nuts. :p

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: (Quote) Kevin-40666 said: Where in the Bible does it say that t...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Quote:
Kevin-40666 said:

Where in the Bible does it say that the sun advocates incest ?


No where. and neither did I. I said dont read Genesis literally .......

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The quote to which I refer is:

"The Bible also says the sun revolves around the earth! and advocates incest."

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: Read between the lines. Adam and Eve had what, two sons? WHich one of the kids sh...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

Read between the lines.

Adam and Eve had what, two sons? WHich one of the kids shagged his mum? And then the offspring of that union, who did they shag? Did a daughter of Eve and one of her sons shag the uncle, the father or Adam? Or did God create a few more people. Seems to me God creating Jeff and Sally and Barry and Jane and Hiliary and Steven would be mentioned so the Jews could claim their various family lines back to "the second couple created by God".

Then post "the flood", more incest.

Numbers. You can make six billion people from two people without a bit of "keeping it in the family".

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Thanks for the support Naomi but with "the Flatearthers" I forgot I had to be literal, as we know incest is outlawed in Deuteronomy so of course the Bible doesnt advocate incest, but if you cherry pick thing from the Bible and Dogma you can it to say anything you want. After all the Bible was the rationale for slavery, and the denial of Civil Rights, the giving Votes to women and Prohibition and they worked out so well, especially in the US

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Kevin-40666 said: The quote to which I refer is: "The Bible also says the sun revolves around t...
(Quote) Kevin-40666 said:

The quote to which I refer is:

"The Bible also says the sun revolves around the earth! and advocates incest."

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I am sorry I had no idea English was your second language. In the syntax of English there should be a comma the little "," symbol to separate the two ideas as separate statements, because I didnt realise English was your second language I didnt put in the separating comma, as we English sborn speakers are lazy with the semantics and so we assume the reader will punctuate and separate the two ideas. Not put the two opposing ideas together to create a counter intuative statement.

My mistake, it wont happen again. I will ensure my responses are properly punctuated- that is too with all the ideas separated into individual and separate entities so you can see the point of the sentence. I will demonstrate by re writing the sentence so you can see and learn.

"The Bible also says the revolves around the earth! (Here I have used an exclamation mark to show the statement is both wrong and ridiculous, I continue) And advocates incest. (By using a capital "A" I indicate a new idea, strictly speaking it is not a full sentence as lacks a subject and predicate, though the subject is implied).

So to recap the sentence reads The bible also says the sun revolves around the earth. The Bible also advocates incest. Now to correct the grammar I have had to make 2 sentences each with a subject, verb and object.

I hope this helps you with your English, though you write well for a second language, I think you will do well once you get to understand the foibles of our lazy ways biggrin

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Thanks for the support Naomi but with "the Flatearthers" I forgot I had to b...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Thanks for the support Naomi but with "the Flatearthers" I forgot I had to be literal, as we know incest is outlawed in Deuteronomy so of course the Bible doesnt advocate incest, but if you cherry pick thing from the Bible and Dogma you can it to say anything you want. After all the Bible was the rationale for slavery, and the denial of Civil Rights, the giving Votes to women and Prohibition and they worked out so well, especially in the US

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But that's the problem isn't it? A literal taking of the Bible supports, or at least tolerates incest. Several books later in Deut. its outlawed. The only thing then is well, Adam and Eve and the adventures in the garden is a literary device. I mean, really, there's TWO stories in Genesis, merged together into what we have as Canon.

IN a similar vein, a few weeks back I listed to a Protestant Professor argue, or at least try to, that there was a Christological support for "homosexual marriage" and that two members of the same gender could enter into a sacramental marriage.

What we have here is a Protestant heresy inserting itself into Catholic theology, ie. the literacy of the bible and sola scriptura. There was no "Bible" for 365 years after Christ. People need to wake up, its 2013, the whole Genesis account needs to be understood in its correct context. Its not literal.

As for a global flood... seesh. I wonder how Noah got himself some Kiwi birds, and Kangaroos....

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: But that's the problem isn't it? A literal taking of the Bible supports, or at l...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

But that's the problem isn't it? A literal taking of the Bible supports, or at least tolerates incest. Several books later in Deut. its outlawed. The only thing then is well, Adam and Eve and the adventures in the garden is a literary device. I mean, really, there's TWO stories in Genesis, merged together into what we have as Canon.

IN a similar vein, a few weeks back I listed to a Protestant Professor argue, or at least try to, that there was a Christological support for "homosexual marriage" and that two members of the same gender could enter into a sacramental marriage.

What we have here is a Protestant heresy inserting itself into Catholic theology, ie. the literacy of the bible and sola scriptura. There was no "Bible" for 365 years after Christ. People need to wake up, its 2013, the whole Genesis account needs to be understood in its correct context. Its not literal.

As for a global flood... seesh. I wonder how Noah got himself some Kiwi birds, and Kangaroos....

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Thats what happens when you dont have the Church to guide you. Everyman and his dog thinks he is a Doctor of Theology and makes their own inturpretation of Gods Word. Even here you have people making it up as they go along.

If you want to you can make the Bible say what ever you want, just take it out of context, add ignorance and an uneducated audience and bobs your brother and sally is your daughter, and of course you have made millions from the leaderless gulible. Look at Tamaki and his bunch of Theological Facists. He went from a cleaner on minimum wage to a multimillionaire "bishop" with houses cars designer suits!!!

Remember Christ warned us to beware of False Prophets coming in His Name for many would fall and go to Hell. Creation myths abound in all cultures, but the discovery of science and evolution doesnt negate them. After all all of Man comes from 12 individuals, they was a Great Flood about 45000 years ago, the last meteor hit the earth 12000 years ago, the last Ice Age forced Man to escape from the North to the South. From an Ice waste land to a green eden, so all thing mentioned in Genesis did happen, so to speak.

Yes the you are right the final Bible wasnt formalised until the Council of Nicea, most of the Gospels were writen 40-60 years after Christs death. Many writing didnt even make the final cut, and are stored in the Secret Vatican Archives. Be facinating to go and have a ramble through them and have a peak.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Well said sir. Our physiology make it claer that we are omnivores, and need the onmivo...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Well said sir. Our physiology make it claer that we are omnivores, and need the onmivore diet to be healthy. Doesnt mean you cant be vegan but just there are risks to such action.

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Some people believe that the pursuit of happiness, the American dream, is to be omnisexual...even with other animals. It may seem that our physiology is more suitable to have sex with an animal of the oppostive sex than having sex with the same sex human Yeah. It is a goat.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Kevin-40666 said: The quote to which I refer is: "The Bible also says the sun revolves around t...
(Quote) Kevin-40666 said:

The quote to which I refer is:

"The Bible also says the sun revolves around the earth! and advocates incest."

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You are right, a quick read could leave one with the impression that the person wrote that the sun advocates incest. A careful read in context leads one to understand that the person was saying that the bible says the sun revolves around the earth and that it (the bible) advocates incest.

I don't want to get into an argument about the bible advocating incest. I will merely state that the bible reports incest.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Robert-3483 said: "Forks Over Knives" basically showed that diet over 5% with animal-based proteins was not so gr...
(Quote) Robert-3483 said: "Forks Over Knives" basically showed that diet over 5% with animal-based proteins was not so great for your health. People tend to forget:

1) Plant-based proteins exist

2) Calorie-dense non-animal foods exist

3) Biblical examples of limited animal-based diets

The question also goes to Jesus. Did Jesus make the highest moral use of food possible? We know that Jesus ate fish and likely lamb on occasion.

Bible and Church Quotations (towards moderation or limited meat):

"'Please allow your servants a ten days' trial, during which we are given only vegetables to eat and water to drink. You can then compare our looks with those of the boys who eat the king's food; go by what you see, and treat your servants accordingly.' The man agreed to do what they asked and put them on ten days' trial. When the ten days were over, they looked better and fatter than any of the boys who had eaten their allowance from the royal table; so the guard withdrew their allowance of food and the wine they were to drink, and gave them vegetables. To these four boys God gave knowledge and skill in every aspect of literature and learning; Daniel also had the gift of interpreting every kind of vision and dream." (Daniel 1:12-17) [New Jerusalem Bible]

"The upright has compassion on his animals, but the heart of the wicked is ruthless. " (Proverbs 12:10) [New Jerusalem Bible]

The lion will eat hay like the ox. The infant will play over the den of the adder; the baby will put his hand into the viper's lair. No hurt, no harm will be done on all my holy mountain, for the country will be full of knowledge of Yahweh as the waters cover the sea.'' (Isaiah 11:6-9) [New Jerusalem Bible]

The wolf and the young lamb will feed together, the lion will eat hay like the ox, and dust be the serpent's food. No hurt, no harm will be done on all my holy mountain, Yahweh says. (Isaiah 65:25) [New Jerusalem Bible]

The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity. Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man's dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para #2415)

Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para #2416)

Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?' (Matthew 6:26)

Bless the Lord, you whales and all creatures that move in the waters, sing praise to him and highly exalt him for ever. Bless the Lord, all birds of the air, sing praise to him and highly exalt him for ever, Bless the Lord, all beasts and cattle, sing praise to him and highly exalt him for ever. (Daniel 3:79-81)

God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. 198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para #2417)

It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para #2418)

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the air, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. (Genesis 9:1-4)

37. Equally worrying is the ecological question which accompanies the problem of consumerism and which is closely connected to it. In his desire to have and to enjoy rather than to be and to grow, man consumes the resources of the earth and his own life in an excessive and disordered way. At the root of the senseless destruction of the natural environment lies an anthropological error, which unfortunately is widespread in our day. Man, who discovers his capacity to transform and in a certain sense create the world through his own work, forgets that this is always based on God's prior and original gift of the things that are. Man thinks that he can make arbitrary use of the earth, subjecting it without restraint to his will, as though it did not have its own requisites and a prior God-given purpose, which man can indeed develop but must not betray. Instead of carrying out his role as a co-operator with God in the work of creation, man sets himself up in place of God and thus ends up provoking a rebellion on the part of nature, which is more tyrannized than governed by him.76

In all this, one notes first the poverty or narrowness of man's outlook, motivated as he is by a desire to possess things rather than to relate them to the truth, and lacking that disinterested, unselfish and aesthetic attitude that is born of wonder in the presence of being and of the beauty which enables one to see in visible things the message of the invisible God who created them. In this regard, humanity today must be conscious of its duties and obligations towards future generations.

38. In addition to the irrational destruction of the natural environment, we must also mention the more serious destruction of the human environment, something which is by no means receiving the attention it deserves. Although people are rightly worried though much less than they should be about preserving the natural habitats of the various animal species threatened with extinction, because they realize that each of these species makes its particular contribution to the balance of nature in general, too little effort is made to safeguard the moral conditions for an authentic "human ecology". Not only has God given the earth to man, who must use it with respect for the original good purpose for which it was given to him, but man too is God's gift to man. He must therefore respect the natural and moral structure with which he has been endowed. In this context, mention should be made of the serious problems of modern urbanization, of the need for urban planning which is concerned with how people are to live, and of the attention which should be given to a "social ecology" of work.

Man receives from God his essential dignity and with it the capacity to transcend every social order so as to move towards truth and goodness. But he is also conditioned by the social structure in which he lives, by the education he has received and by his environment. These elements can either help or hinder his living in accordance with the truth. The decisions which create a human environment can give rise to specific structures of sin which impede the full realization of those who are in any way oppressed by them. To destroy such structures and replace them with more authentic forms of living in community is a task which demands courage and patience.77

76. Cf. Encyclical Letter Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, 34: loc. cit., 559f.; Message for the 1990 World Day of Peace: AAS 82 (1990), 147-156.

77. Cf. Apostolic Exhortation Reconciliatio et Poenitentia (December 2,1984),16:AAS 77 (1985), 213-217; Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno, III: loc. cit., 219.
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Thanks for taking the time to post that beautiful composition Clover

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