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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Fr. Corapi was not a parish priest, so whatever might have happened could not possibly ha...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Fr. Corapi was not a parish priest, so whatever might have happened could not possibly have involved a parishioner. The person making the accusation was an (ex-)employee.

The BlackSheepDog web site was shut down and Corapi disappeared from public view over a year ago.

Most of the information available about Fr. Corapi's personal situation is unverified rumor, and thus is not appropriate for discussion. Discussion of he catechetical material is appropriate.

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I apologize if my comment sounded too negative about Fr. Corapi, that is not what I intended, though upon rereading it that wasn't how I wanted to say it. Thank you for pointing out that it was Black Sheep Dog - I have the image of a canine in my head but got the wrong one. I did read on his website that he (Fr. Corapi) decided to leave the priesthood after the superior's decision. I liked Fr. Corapi but I didn't believe that he was doing the right thing, it seemed to not be in obedience. But then again, I don't have all the information on the case, only God does.

Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: I actually went to a talk from a guy from Ireland associated with "Maria Divine Merc...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

I actually went to a talk from a guy from Ireland associated with "Maria Divine Mercy" yesterday (today denounced by the Archbishop). I did not provide my name, contribute money (there was a collection but it was stressed that there was no obligation to participate) or buy any literature. I walked away no wiser in terms of being a believer or non believer. However, I must confess that the message promoted was orthodox and real in my opinion. Having been an on-off viewer of the website there seems to be an inference that the Warning is very soon. That is going to make or break the credibility of the "apparitions".

We all make calls on "false prophets" and make decisions on how we practice our faith based on those personal judgments. Next Sunday (Palm Sunday) many priests will encourage their sheep to remain seated during the reading of the Passion of Christ because it is "too long". When we are encouraged to make ourselves more comfortable during the grievous suffering of Christ Our Saviour one can ask whether those priests are "false prophets" in encouraging that. The local Press highlighted that the Pope's chief objective was to "reduce world poverty". I am looking forward to hearing statements about leading people to God and sanctifying souls

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Thank you Gabor, for a different perspective. Much of what is written on the site seems to be in line with traditional Catholic teaching, but I haven't analyzed it that closely. There are very divided opinions on this seer's prophecies. I guess we will see soon.


With regards to Pope Francis, I agree that reducing poverty is important, but God and saving souls first. As Christ said, "you will always have the poor but you will not always have Me." And we should not be comfortable during the reading of the Passion of Christ. I find that irreverant and lacking respect for His sacrifice.

Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: No one is required to believe private revelation, not even that approved by the Church (Lourdes, Fati...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

No one is required to believe private revelation, not even that approved by the Church (Lourdes, Fatima, etc.) If that is not part of your spirituality, then don't concern yourself with it.

I think the end time prophecies that I myself do consider are those that have been revealed by saints and blesseds of the church. Their visions and messages have an imprimatur of sorts in my view.

I am able to take in the information and process it, and always say if the Church says it is not authentic, I will accept that.

The Lord Himself taught us: "when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door." Matthew 24:33. That much we can depend upon.

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I agree with most of what you said, Pat. However, I believe (based on what I read and heard in homilies) that approved apparitions like Guadalupe, Lourdes and Fatima are part of the deposit of faith and it is not optional whether to believe in them or not. I think there are more approved apparitions now, perhaps up to 12, like La Salette and Akita. You are correct however that we are not required to believe private revelation. I tend to read saint's teachings on their visions. Interestingly though, according to what I've read from the visionary saints, we are supposed to have greater saints in modern times than that of history, but we won't know who they are just yet.

Mar 17th 2013 new

Rosanna, here is the Catechism on private revelation:

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: Rosanna, here is the Catechism on private revelation: 67 Througho...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

Rosanna, here is the Catechism on private revelation:

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

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Thank you, Pat. I stand corrected (had the wrong info).

Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said: I apologize if my comment sounded too negative about Fr. Corapi, that is not what I intended, t...
(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said:

I apologize if my comment sounded too negative about Fr. Corapi, that is not what I intended, though upon rereading it that wasn't how I wanted to say it. Thank you for pointing out that it was Black Sheep Dog - I have the image of a canine in my head but got the wrong one. I did read on his website that he (Fr. Corapi) decided to leave the priesthood after the superior's decision. I liked Fr. Corapi but I didn't believe that he was doing the right thing, it seemed to not be in obedience. But then again, I don't have all the information on the case, only God does.

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Rosanna, it's not that your remarks were bad. From experience, I know from experience how quickly discussions about Fr. Corapi degenerate and was making a proactive move to keep that from happening here.

Mar 18th 2013 new

Hi Sam,

A big and timely topic. I have a friend who owns the small convenience store where we buy gas. He always has some end time thing for me to read :-), or some fringe archaeology to look into lol. I was most pleased when our new Pope took a name other than Peter LOL. . .and he was a bit disappointed. :-) Mind you he believes in aliens, government conspiracies mostly about aliens and a number of other things.

Catholic Answers provides some excellent resources on the topic and I have referred people to those as well.

But, one day, I interjected into a conversation some of my colleagues were having, mostly not religious, the problem with many of these prophecies is that they operate on and create fear, irrational fear in some cases. But, for me it is very simple. I find great peace and comfort in the Glory Be: Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be a world without end. Amen.

Additionally, the context of Revelations was most probably the Roman Empire, the current political situation of the day and not some future apocalypse.

Again, we should live each day as if it were to be our last. When the Second Coming arrives there will be nothing we can do to stop it and since we are not to know the day and time, there is no reason to fret over it, for that in itself is not a good thing. Instead we should model our life on the principals laid out in Scripture and Tradition so that we are not caught unaware when the Bridegroom arrives.

The Rapture as I recall was developed in or by a Tent Revivalist and swept through fundamentalists, where it remains today, and is loosely based on the passage that there will be two in the fields and one will be taken up and the other left behind.

I know this is probably not as Apologetic as you had hoped for the discussion, but it is late and I would have to dig out some resources to provide a more academic reply. Perhaps tomorrow :-). Lauren

Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said: I agree with most of what you said, Pat. However, I believe (based on what I read ...
(Quote) Rosanna-921185 said:


I agree with most of what you said, Pat. However, I believe (based on what I read and heard in homilies) that approved apparitions like Guadalupe, Lourdes and Fatima are part of the deposit of faith and it is not optional whether to believe in them or not. I think there are more approved apparitions now, perhaps up to 12, like La Salette and Akita. You are correct however that we are not required to believe private revelation. I tend to read saint's teachings on their visions. Interestingly though, according to what I've read from the visionary saints, we are supposed to have greater saints in modern times than that of history, but we won't know who they are just yet.

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The approved apparitions are still classified as "private revelation" which we are not required to be beleived. In the case of the approived revelations, the Church presents those as being worthy of our consideration, but does not require us to beleive or not believe.

The approval is somewhat like the imprimater on a book. It tells us only that there is nothing in the book that is dangerous to the Faith, but is not certifying that it is free of all errors or that it is even factual.

Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: Hi Sam, A big and timely topic. I have a friend who owns the small convenience store wher...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

Hi Sam,

A big and timely topic. I have a friend who owns the small convenience store where we buy gas. He always has some end time thing for me to read :-), or some fringe archaeology to look into lol. I was most pleased when our new Pope took a name other than Peter LOL. . .and he was a bit disappointed. :-) Mind you he believes in aliens, government conspiracies mostly about aliens and a number of other things.

Catholic Answers provides some excellent resources on the topic and I have referred people to those as well.

But, one day, I interjected into a conversation some of my colleagues were having, mostly not religious, the problem with many of these prophecies is that they operate on and create fear, irrational fear in some cases. But, for me it is very simple. I find great peace and comfort in the Glory Be: Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be a world without end. Amen.

Additionally, the context of Revelations was most probably the Roman Empire, the current political situation of the day and not some future apocalypse.

Again, we should live each day as if it were to be our last. When the Second Coming arrives there will be nothing we can do to stop it and since we are not to know the day and time, there is no reason to fret over it, for that in itself is not a good thing. Instead we should model our life on the principals laid out in Scripture and Tradition so that we are not caught unaware when the Bridegroom arrives.

The Rapture as I recall was developed in or by a Tent Revivalist and swept through fundamentalists, where it remains today, and is loosely based on the passage that there will be two in the fields and one will be taken up and the other left behind.

I know this is probably not as Apologetic as you had hoped for the discussion, but it is late and I would have to dig out some resources to provide a more academic reply. Perhaps tomorrow :-). Lauren

--hide--

The problem with the book of revelation is that it is very complex with many levels of meaning. A lot in it clearly relates to the time period when it was written.But even more of it is "out of this world" and deals with end times and matters of eternity.

Scot Hahn points out that a lot of the structure of the Mass is derived from the Book.

All of which speaks to its many layers. An onion that has yet to be anywhere near completely unravelled

Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: Hi Sam, A big and timely topic. I have a friend who owns the small convenience store wher...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

Hi Sam,

A big and timely topic. I have a friend who owns the small convenience store where we buy gas. He always has some end time thing for me to read :-), or some fringe archaeology to look into lol. I was most pleased when our new Pope took a name other than Peter LOL. . .and he was a bit disappointed. :-) Mind you he believes in aliens, government conspiracies mostly about aliens and a number of other things.

Catholic Answers provides some excellent resources on the topic and I have referred people to those as well.

But, one day, I interjected into a conversation some of my colleagues were having, mostly not religious, the problem with many of these prophecies is that they operate on and create fear, irrational fear in some cases. But, for me it is very simple. I find great peace and comfort in the Glory Be: Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be a world without end. Amen.

Additionally, the context of Revelations was most probably the Roman Empire, the current political situation of the day and not some future apocalypse.

Again, we should live each day as if it were to be our last. When the Second Coming arrives there will be nothing we can do to stop it and since we are not to know the day and time, there is no reason to fret over it, for that in itself is not a good thing. Instead we should model our life on the principals laid out in Scripture and Tradition so that we are not caught unaware when the Bridegroom arrives.

The Rapture as I recall was developed in or by a Tent Revivalist and swept through fundamentalists, where it remains today, and is loosely based on the passage that there will be two in the fields and one will be taken up and the other left behind.

I know this is probably not as Apologetic as you had hoped for the discussion, but it is late and I would have to dig out some resources to provide a more academic reply. Perhaps tomorrow :-). Lauren

--hide--


Hi Lauren


You are right, it does operate on fear etc. However, for people who hold to all of these kind of conspiracies that do not deal with religion or they themselves do not hold to religion, then you have to approach them with a purely rational base, and just debunk their beliefs by facts. If possible, we obviously want to try and show them the security, love, and hope that we have in Christ because of His promises...but with atheist that are prevented by their own pride to turn their lives over to God, you can still help them by debunking many of their claims through reason.


As far as the rapture, I have heard a couple of things, I posted it a little while ago, but I have also heard John Nelson Darby created the rapture in the 1850s and base the verse of 1 Thessolians 4:16 or 17.


And your response is welcomed as it brings up the obvious point that I failed to mention....sadly it is not just Christians who fall for all of these prophecies and conspiracies.

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