Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Always rejoice. Pray without ceasing. In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all. Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [1st Thessalonians, 5:20-22]

After the election of Pope Francis, and slightly before it, I noticed a change in attitude concerning Catholic prophecy, by which I mean prophetic utterances that, when taken together, form what is known as "private revelation" (where Public Revelation is that containing the Sacred Scripture, to which nothing will be added and is primary).

This is likely a natural reaction to the List of Popes accredited to St. Malachy, from which wild interpretations of the Last Pope being named Peter the Roman have been spun, particularly by Protestants. The latest attitude is to triumphantly declare not only the bit about Peter the Roman "debunked," but to dismiss the whole list as bogus. The chief promoter of this has been Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin, a apologist affiliated with Catholic Answers. This attitude has moved to even to Church approved private revelation, such as the Secrets given by Our Lady to the Children at Fatima.

It is a reaction, and like all reactions it often responds to excesses in one direction with excesses in the opposite one.

skellmeyer.blogspot.com

Thoughts?


Mar 20th 2013 new
I've always been mistrustful of private revelation because it seems to displace the focus on public revelation found in the Bible and in Tradition in the lives of a lot of Catholics.

In the years I have been in the Church I have met a lot of people who know more about what this visionary says or that visionary says rather than what the Church Fathers have taught or what the Bible says.
Mar 21st 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Always rejoice. Pray without ceasing. In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Always rejoice. Pray without ceasing. In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all. Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [1st Thessalonians, 5:20-22]

After the election of Pope Francis, and slightly before it, I noticed a change in attitude concerning Catholic prophecy, by which I mean prophetic utterances that, when taken together, form what is known as "private revelation" (where Public Revelation is that containing the Sacred Scripture, to which nothing will be added and is primary).

This is likely a natural reaction to the List of Popes accredited to St. Malachy, from which wild interpretations of the Last Pope being named Peter the Roman have been spun, particularly by Protestants. The latest attitude is to triumphantly declare not only the bit about Peter the Roman "debunked," but to dismiss the whole list as bogus. The chief promoter of this has been Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin, a apologist affiliated with Catholic Answers. This attitude has moved to even to Church approved private revelation, such as the Secrets given by Our Lady to the Children at Fatima.

It is a reaction, and like all reactions it often responds to excesses in one direction with excesses in the opposite one.

skellmeyer.blogspot.com

Thoughts?


--hide--

The Catholic encyclopedia has an excellent article about the silly prophesies of St. Malachy. The article takes no side on the issue of their validity. But if you read the article, every normally intelligent person would reach the conclusion that they are completely bogus.

The article you give reference to is silly. Mary's predictions at Fatima were not as specified in that article. The reasoning used by the writer of that article leaves a lot to be desired.

Mar 21st 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: I've always been mistrustful of private revelation because it seems to displace the focus on public r...
(Quote) John-220051 said: I've always been mistrustful of private revelation because it seems to displace the focus on public revelation found in the Bible and in Tradition in the lives of a lot of Catholics.

In the years I have been in the Church I have met a lot of people who know more about what this visionary says or that visionary says rather than what the Church Fathers have taught or what the Bible says.
--hide--

I agree. The Church itself teaches that it take a far back seat to Sacred Scripture and the teaching of the Church.

One also has to look at agreeing threads, just as with Patristics.

Mar 26th 2013 new

My brother mentioned St. Malachy to me a few months back. I was intrigued by what he told me, but I was also skeptical. When I looked up the prophecies, I knew that they were not true because all the popes before the date they were “found” were (mostly) reasonable, but the ones afterwards could only be true in a very convoluted way. I read that some people believe that there might be popes in between the “Glory of the Olive” and “Peter the Roman,” but what’s the point if that is true? What kind of prophecy has a “dot dot dot The End” to it? I agree with Jimmy Aikin’s take on the St. Malachy situation. St Bernard knew St Malachy, wrote his biography, and was totally unaware of this great feat? Not likely.

The job of prophets is to prophesy, which means to speak the words of the Lord, not necessarily predict the future. How is a list of popes edifying to God’s people?

The Church declares private revelation “worthy of belief” sometimes, but there is no obligation to believe. I think that it is important to realize that saints are human, so while they are in heaven now, they were still fallible on earth. Even the greatest prophet of the Old Testament, Moses, messed up—that is why he didn’t get to go to the promised land. So, a little caution when it comes to “teachings/sayings/visions” of saints is still warranted. On a similar note, I had a friend who had an affinity for Medjugorje and talked about it from time to time. Then she gave me a book about personal miracles that people attribute to visiting Medjugorje, so I looked into it more. The “revelations” were not in line with Church teaching, so I told her to read them and tell me what she thought. (She had only read gushing testimonies and stories up until then.) After reading the revelations, she also concluded that they were not in line with Church teaching, ergo she does not consider Mejugorje to be the next Lourdes or Fatima as she once did.

It is not necessarily a bad thing for people to eschew private revelation if they are doing so to protect themselves from error. Reacting to a false revelation by not trusting any private revelation might seem severe, and mean that a person misses out on some great spiritual help or beautiful thoughts of the saints, but I can’t find fault with anyone rejecting a non-essential practice in order to safeguard their relationship with God.

Mar 26th 2013 new

(Quote) Mary-847286 said: My brother mentioned St. Malachy to me a few months back. I was intrigued by what he told me, but ...
(Quote) Mary-847286 said:

My brother mentioned St. Malachy to me a few months back. I was intrigued by what he told me, but I was also skeptical. When I looked up the prophecies, I knew that they were not true because all the popes before the date they were “found” were (mostly) reasonable, but the ones afterwards could only be true in a very convoluted way. I read that some people believe that there might be popes in between the “Glory of the Olive” and “Peter the Roman,” but what’s the point if that is true? What kind of prophecy has a “dot dot dot The End” to it? I agree with Jimmy Aikin’s take on the St. Malachy situation. St Bernard knew St Malachy, wrote his biography, and was totally unaware of this great feat? Not likely.

The job of prophets is to prophesy, which means to speak the words of the Lord, not necessarily predict the future. How is a list of popes edifying to God’s people?

The Church declares private revelation “worthy of belief” sometimes, but there is no obligation to believe. I think that it is important to realize that saints are human, so while they are in heaven now, they were still fallible on earth. Even the greatest prophet of the Old Testament, Moses, messed up—that is why he didn’t get to go to the promised land. So, a little caution when it comes to “teachings/sayings/visions” of saints is still warranted. On a similar note, I had a friend who had an affinity for Medjugorje and talked about it from time to time. Then she gave me a book about personal miracles that people attribute to visiting Medjugorje, so I looked into it more. The “revelations” were not in line with Church teaching, so I told her to read them and tell me what she thought. (She had only read gushing testimonies and stories up until then.) After reading the revelations, she also concluded that they were not in line with Church teaching, ergo she does not consider Mejugorje to be the next Lourdes or Fatima as she once did.

It is not necessarily a bad thing for people to eschew private revelation if they are doing so to protect themselves from error. Reacting to a false revelation by not trusting any private revelation might seem severe, and mean that a person misses out on some great spiritual help or beautiful thoughts of the saints, but I can’t find fault with anyone rejecting a non-essential practice in order to safeguard their relationship with God.

--hide--

I agree that it may indeed be a good thing for people to eschew discussion of private revelation, at least until they have a better grasp of the Public revelation in the form of Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium.

The author of Tea at Trianon, who has been through the Eighties and Nineties, would agree with you on that. Read through her thoughts on this and see what you think:

teaattrianon.blogspot.com

Posts 1 - 6 of 6