Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: A nice gesture on the Pope's part,but the Apostles (who were men) were Priest's and Bisho...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

A nice gesture on the Pope's part,but the Apostles (who were men) were Priest's and Bishops. Having a female in this instance just doesn' fit IMO.

--hide--

Perhaps, but doesn't humily also require the virtue of obedience?

For the Pontiff, should that mean not just obedience to Christ but also to the liturgical laws of the Holy Church unless and until he formally changes them? To me this seems imprudent.

The Popes are only protected from proclaiming error as dogma. Sometimes we have bad Popes, and even St. Peter had to be opposed to his face by St. Paul when he gave a scandalous example.[Gal 2:11]

www.drbo.org

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Linda-624584 said: This I guess according to your "viewpoint" my Priest and many in my area "think wo...
(Quote) Linda-624584 said:

This I guess according to your "viewpoint" my Priest and many in my area "think women and children should be ordained", and they "don't understand what the liturgy represents."

I'll be sure to questioned him tonight before he washes the feet of the female elect.

--hide--

The issue isn't whether it is theologically appropriate to wash the feet of women or children; it is about ignoring the law that is in effect.

Dr. Edward Peters, a canon lawyer who serves as a consultant to the Vatican, addresses this incident in his blog. While he personally believes the Mandatum should not be restricted to men only, he points out that the law at this point in time is very clear on that restriction and, that given the present law, the Pope ignoring it was not prudent:

canonlawblog.wordpress.com

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Marian-83994 said: Personally I do not see this as connected to liturgy and the priesthood. Maybe I am missing this,...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:

Personally I do not see this as connected to liturgy and the priesthood. Maybe I am missing this, But I know that our current pope also washed the feet of some HIV positive persons. That does not mean our liturgy must have HIV positive people

--hide--

The liturgical rubrics say nothing about the health status of those whose feet are washed; they do, however, clearly state they must be men.

I'm not saying the rubrics shouldn't be changed. But unless/until they are, everyone, including the Pope should follow them.

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Linda-624584 said: This I guess according to your "viewpoint&q...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Linda-624584 said:

This I guess according to your "viewpoint" my Priest and many in my area "think women and children should be ordained", and they "don't understand what the liturgy represents."

I'll be sure to questioned him tonight before he washes the feet of the female elect.


The issue isn't whether it is theologically appropriate to wash the feet of women or children; it is about ignoring the law that is in effect.

Dr. Edward Peters, a canon lawyer who serves as a consultant to the Vatican, addresses this incident in his blog. While he personally believes the Mandatum should not be restricted to men only, he points out that the law at this point in time is very clear on that restriction and, that given the present law, the Pope ignoring it was not prudent:

canonlawblog.wordpress.com

--hide--


Thanks for the information in this and the next post. I was sort of aware of this but nor formally aware. It makes sense now.

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Marian-83994 said: Personally I do not see this as connected to lit...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Marian-83994 said:

Personally I do not see this as connected to liturgy and the priesthood. Maybe I am missing this, But I know that our current pope also washed the feet of some HIV positive persons. That does not mean our liturgy must have HIV positive people


The liturgical rubrics say nothing about the health status of those whose feet are washed; they do, however, clearly state they must be men.

I'm not saying the rubrics shouldn't be changed. But unless/until they are, everyone, including the Pope should follow them.

--hide--


Thank you. I wonder if he sees some higher reason for trying this out? Maybe getting the Press to watch and consider?

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The issue isn't whether it is theologically appropriate to wash the feet of women or ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The issue isn't whether it is theologically appropriate to wash the feet of women or children; it is about ignoring the law that is in effect.

Dr. Edward Peters, a canon lawyer who serves as a consultant to the Vatican, addresses this incident in his blog. While he personally believes the Mandatum should not be restricted to men only, he points out that the law at this point in time is very clear on that restriction and, that given the present law, the Pope ignoring it was not prudent:

canonlawblog.wordpress.com

--hide--

I completely agree with the fact that our concern is not with the theological correctness of washing the feet of women and or children but the seeming imprudence of ignoring liturgical rubrics by the supreme pontiff. Obedience in itself is a holy thing as evidenced by Christ's willingness to be subject to the law even though he was above it when he was in earth. It may have been well meaning but the fact is we have a problem with rouge priests and bishops thinking that they can do whatever they feel called to do in the moment even to the point of ignoring essential liturgica lrubrics. How can we hope to keep these guys in line if our Pope is doing it. I am not trying to criticize him but IMHO the action ( not him) was very imprudent even more especially given the present day struggles in the Church and his newness to the post.

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

"By their fruits they will be known."

The inaugural homily of the Pope was the most wishy-washy combination of nothing I have ever heard. I told myself that we must give him time.

This "kind gesture" by the Pope is starting to give purported prophesies like the following legs :

"But soon, all will see the subtle acts and the sly gestures of those false imposters who preside over My Throne in Rome, for they amount to sacrilege."

That old joke "Is the Pope a Catholic?" is no longer humorous.

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: I completely agree with the fact that our concern is not with the theological correctnes...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

I completely agree with the fact that our concern is not with the theological correctness of washing the feet of women and or children but the seeming imprudence of ignoring liturgical rubrics by the supreme pontiff. Obedience in itself is a holy thing as evidenced by Christ's willingness to be subject to the law even though he was above it when he was in earth. It may have been well meaning but the fact is we have a problem with rouge priests and bishops thinking that they can do whatever they feel called to do in the moment even to the point of ignoring essential liturgica lrubrics. How can we hope to keep these guys in line if our Pope is doing it. I am not trying to criticize him but IMHO the action ( not him) was very imprudent even more especially given the present day struggles in the Church and his newness to the post.

--hide--

Just to clarify I am not trying to criticize the pope as pontiff since I think that it is wrong to do so. However, I am saying that the action can been seen as imprudent and is extremely concerning. If any of us before had been lax on our prayers for our pontiff this is probably a wake up call. Sometimes even holy men when under a microscope can take misteps. We are not called to judge them as we are all flawed and those in postions of authority over the Church are even more under attack. However, we can look at specific actions and realize that they are concerning in their implications.

Just today I was talking with someone about how and why the priestly vocation of father, husband and head of household is under attack both from within and without due to unfortunate secular programming. The easiest way to break down the family is to shoot it in the head. How much more is the true priest and head of our Church under attack and in need of our prayer. Satan does not tempt holy men with openly sinful actions but uses their good intentions against them. We need to pray fervently and intentionally. Praying Praying Praying rosary rosary rosary rosary

As ex- Fr Corapi used to say. The roasry; it is good for what ails you. The Church is ailing.

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

I have pasted a very good letter that I read in respect of Pope Francis that I wish to share below:

The reported actions of our new Pope Francis are in themselves statements which do
speak louder than words and that concerns me. The numerous reports describing
him as a man of the people, humble to the point of a mendicant abstaining from
opulence is notable. However impressive there are also the reports of the same
man who is a non-conformist to traditions long practiced by the Church; a man
whose behavior is sometimes exhibitionist and rebellious when it comes to
accepted protocol. Is this all a sign of humility that I just don’t understand,
or is he drawing attention to himself for other reasons less noble? Either way
there appears to be a confusing conflict with the definition of humility and the
attention our new pontiff’s behavior is provoking. I don’t mean to be
disrespectful; I just don’t see the correlation.

Another thing that concerns me is the report that his diocese and seminary in Buenas
Aries, Argentina is in a state of shambles. What if anything does this say for
his spiritual and fiscal executive abilities? It is no secret that the whole
Church is suffering from a crisis in Faith as well as finances and both subjects
have to be remedied. Is his parochial track record an indication of the
direction we are headed and how concerned should we be? These questions are
troubling and won’t go away with wishful thinking. Optimism without serious
practical analysis and doctrinal adherence within the traditions of our Holy
Church is a sin against prudence and an insult to the saints.

I wish he would spend more time speaking about the dissolution of the Catholic
family and less with the environment and outreach to the Islamists. Certainly
the practical management of our physical planet is important but, the family and
its spiritual formation should be his first priority. The Catholic family is
the foundation for the Catholic Society in renewing all things in Christ Jesus.
The planet was made for mankind and only reflects in kind the mismanagement of
our godless society. Putting all things in right order in Christ Jesus is the
answer to mankind’s miseries and abuses not negotiating with Green Peace or the
United Nations.

I hope I’m wrong and my concern that Pope Francis may be a fan of the camera’s
attention is false. I pray that he will surround himself with prelates who are
solid Catholics focused of the spiritual renewal of the Holy Catholic Church.
The fact still remains that the post Vatican II years have been a veritable and
heartbreaking disaster for the Faith and the economy of our beloved Catholic
Church and unless Pope Francis is willing to accept that reality and deal with
it we will just get more of the same.

It is wonderful to be enthusiastic about the corporal works of mercy and the needs
of the poor however the first priority of the Catholic Church is its spiritual
works of mercy and the two can never be reversed in order or separated. I hope
our new pope does not lose sight of that goal and get caught up in the politics
of social justice and environmentalism via democratic plebiscites. What we need
is for our Pope Francis to clearly state the traditional doctrinal truths of the
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and condemn heresy. We shall pray for
Pope Francis that he will be strong in virtue and leadership.

Viva Cristo Rey!

LOCKED
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: I have pasted a very good letter that I read in respect of Pope Francis that I wish to share below...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

I have pasted a very good letter that I read in respect of Pope Francis that I wish to share below:

The reported actions of our new Pope Francis are in themselves statements which do
speak louder than words and that concerns me. The numerous reports describing
him as a man of the people, humble to the point of a mendicant abstaining from
opulence is notable. However impressive there are also the reports of the same
man who is a non-conformist to traditions long practiced by the Church; a man
whose behavior is sometimes exhibitionist and rebellious when it comes to
accepted protocol. Is this all a sign of humility that I just don’t understand,
or is he drawing attention to himself for other reasons less noble? Either way
there appears to be a confusing conflict with the definition of humility and the
attention our new pontiff’s behavior is provoking. I don’t mean to be
disrespectful; I just don’t see the correlation.

Another thing that concerns me is the report that his diocese and seminary in Buenas
Aries, Argentina is in a state of shambles. What if anything does this say for
his spiritual and fiscal executive abilities? It is no secret that the whole
Church is suffering from a crisis in Faith as well as finances and both subjects
have to be remedied. Is his parochial track record an indication of the
direction we are headed and how concerned should we be? These questions are
troubling and won’t go away with wishful thinking. Optimism without serious
practical analysis and doctrinal adherence within the traditions of our Holy
Church is a sin against prudence and an insult to the saints.

I wish he would spend more time speaking about the dissolution of the Catholic
family and less with the environment and outreach to the Islamists. Certainly
the practical management of our physical planet is important but, the family and
its spiritual formation should be his first priority. The Catholic family is
the foundation for the Catholic Society in renewing all things in Christ Jesus.
The planet was made for mankind and only reflects in kind the mismanagement of
our godless society. Putting all things in right order in Christ Jesus is the
answer to mankind’s miseries and abuses not negotiating with Green Peace or the
United Nations.

I hope I’m wrong and my concern that Pope Francis may be a fan of the camera’s
attention is false. I pray that he will surround himself with prelates who are
solid Catholics focused of the spiritual renewal of the Holy Catholic Church.
The fact still remains that the post Vatican II years have been a veritable and
heartbreaking disaster for the Faith and the economy of our beloved Catholic
Church and unless Pope Francis is willing to accept that reality and deal with
it we will just get more of the same.

It is wonderful to be enthusiastic about the corporal works of mercy and the needs
of the poor however the first priority of the Catholic Church is its spiritual
works of mercy and the two can never be reversed in order or separated. I hope
our new pope does not lose sight of that goal and get caught up in the politics
of social justice and environmentalism via democratic plebiscites. What we need
is for our Pope Francis to clearly state the traditional doctrinal truths of the
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and condemn heresy. We shall pray for
Pope Francis that he will be strong in virtue and leadership.

Viva Cristo Rey!

--hide--

+JMJ+

Thanks, Gabor. I totally agree. The author is a very dear friend of mine. We all need to double up on our prayers for His Holiness, Pope Francis!

LOCKED
Posts 11 - 20 of 200