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Mar 31st 2013 new

William,


I used that analogy because I felt that it was appropriate in light of some (not all) of the comments on this thread. I have not changed my mind concerning the appropriateness of this analogy. I stand by it.


Ed



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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: It think it (behavior from some Catholics) is very similar behavior to that of some of the Phar...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

It think it (behavior from some Catholics) is very similar behavior to that of some of the Pharisees who hung on every word and action of Jesus, not so that they might learn from Him, but so that they might catch Jesus in some perceived error so that they could discredit him in front of the Jewish population. It is sad to see.


Ed

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I think you are very much on target. It is very unfortunate.

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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: John,That is a far too simplistic answer for someone of your intellect....
(Quote) William-607613 said:





John,

That is a far too simplistic answer for someone of your intellect.


Liturgical law can be changed, but it cannot be ignored. If the Pope had a problem with the law he could have taken steps to change it. By not doing this but by publicly ignoring it, he creates a problem for all of those clergy and lay people who try to adhere to liturgical law.

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For all anybody here knows, he wrote himself an indult before he did it.

For what it's worth, I agree that it would have been better to make such a thing public knowledge first, but that being said I think way too much stress is being put on it.

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Mar 31st 2013 new

I am sure that the Vatican has a way of learning these things. But, I suppose that we should keep in mind that there are over 221,000 parishes in the world, as of 2010 (according to some Georgetown Univ. information) (see link below). I can't imagine the massive task it must be to keep tabs on each and every parish.


Check out this data concern the Catholic Church. It is quite interesting:

cara.georgetown.edu


Ed

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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: After reading through this thread, I feel sad. First, because the person that started it opened th...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:

After reading through this thread, I feel sad. First, because the person that started it opened the door to doubt and criticism of the Head of the Catholic Church among other Catholics. Then I thought of the new Catholics who are trying to navigate this very vast and sometimes complicated church. Maybe some of them joined CM and are reading the forums and wondering who or what to believe if they can't trust their Pope to guide them.
...

Let us pray for Francis our pope.
"May the Lord protect him and grant him length of days. Amen.
May the Lord be his shield and deliver him from all harm. Amen.
May the Lord give him happiness and peace all the days of his life. Amen.

O God, the Shepherd and Ruler of all the faithful, in Thy mercy look down upon Thy
servant Francis, who Thou has appointed to preside over Thy church, and grant we
beseech Thee, that both by word and example he may edify those who are under his
charge; so that, with the flock entrusted to him, he may attain life everlasting.
Through Christ our Lord. Amen." ...

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Thanks, Laura.


I, too ask for prayer for the Holy Father.


And I hope to keep in mind that I ought to mean by that: "I pray that the Spirit guides the Church in the direction that God most desires."

Rather than "I pray that the Spirit guides the Church in the direction that I most desire."

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Mar 31st 2013 new

Concerning the Holy Thursday washing of feet by Pope Francis....


This statement (below) was released by the Vatican's chief spokesman, the Rev. Feerico Lombardi on Friday 3/29/2013. I have copied three paragraphs from the Washington Post article (which appears to me to be accurate):


This is the full Washington Post article >>> www.washingtonpost.com


Copied from the article....

The Vatican’s chief spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said the pope’s decision was “absolutely licit” for a rite that is not a church sacrament. Francis also took into account “the real situation, the community where one celebrates,” Lombardi added.

The Casal del Marmo prison where Francis celebrated houses both young men and women, “and it would have been strange if girls had been excluded,” Lombardi said.

“This community understands simple and essential things; they were not liturgy scholars,” Lombardi said. “Washing feet was important to present the Lord’s spirit of service and love.”

_________________________________________

I just thought that all concerned (on this thread) may be interested in reading this, if you have not already done so.... Not that I expect it to change anyone's mind on the subject, but I just thought that it was important what the Vatican's chief spokesman had to say concerning this issue.

Ed

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Mar 31st 2013 new
Yes Mary, that is absolutely true! They need our prayers and our love! St. Catherine of Sienna said " Those who honor the Pope , honor Christ, those who dishonor the Pope, dishonor Christ."
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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Lynea-297530 said: Yes, Ray, the washing of the feet is not obligatory, but highly recommended, and it is tradition....
(Quote) Lynea-297530 said:

Yes, Ray, the washing of the feet is not obligatory, but highly recommended, and it is tradition.

However, you misunderstood one thing about the Holy Thursday liturgy; it is not a usual Mass --- the Mass itself is a commemoration of BOTH the institution of the Holy Eucharist AND the institution of Holy Orders --- even on its own without the Washing of the Feet. This is what we celebrate on Maundy Thursday.

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I believe all Christian faithful also share in the priesthood by their baptismal character. We are able to offer ourselves in sacrifice with Christ through the Eucharistic liturgy and with the offering made by our ordained priests. Our Catechism says:

Two participations in the one priesthood of Christ

1546 Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."20 The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly... Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood."21

1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood...


This basically means that priests serve the lay people (common priests), men AND women. In this light, I find no error in Pope Francis’ act of washing the feet of women. He was fulfilling the heart of the law, just as Jesus did. Jesus radically went an extra mile to make a point, to show how we are to behave. As someone said, “He ate with sinners, publicans, tax collectors. He allowed a prostitute to wash his feet. The people around Him, especially the lawmakers, were horrified and scandalized. God knows what is in Pope Francis heart, mind and motives. The Holy Spirit inspired the Cardinals to elect Pope Francis. He was not elected by a popular vote of lay persons. He is a prayerful Holy man, who I am sure knows how listen to what the Holy Spirit leads him to do and say.”

This is not my opinon. This is my faith. Flashes of childhood came to my mind with this topic. As a young girl, I could not understand why my parents had to bring us to orphanages and old folks homes after we heard Mass. I thought that those were supposed to be the job of the priest. Later in my renewed faith and after intense immersion in the poor communities, I came to realize that liturgy is supposed to be about the worship of God so that we can then go out and live the faith, do good works, and be charitable. I learned that what brings about the true conversion of people is not a set of rules, but the kindness that they see among those who have given effort and time to love them. It was this faith that softened the hearts of the militia during our 1986 revolution when hundreds of my countrymen (priests, nuns, fathers, mothers, babies, businessmen, rich and poor) lined up close to the armed soldiers (who were ready to shoot all of us), with only the rosary and flowers as our weapons.

So forgive me, my brothers and sisters, if I have a simple mind and don’t know much about theology. All I know, want and pray is for the Church to regain its Heart, its Compassion, its Mercy. And as a child of God, I will cling to Him as I believe His Church will prevail. As a Catholic who loves God, loves others, I remain faithful to the Vicar who has shown in action the true meaning of God’s Word and for keeping Jesus’ discipleship alive.

May Jesus come to us alive this Easter and all of our days.



Peace Dove

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Apr 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: Are you accusing the Pope of scandal? By whose authority to do have the right to do th...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:




Are you accusing the Pope of scandal? By whose authority to do have the right to do that? Pope Francis has been placed in the "Chair of Peter", which by synecdoche signifies the episcopal office of the Pope as Bishop of Rome, an office considered to have been first held by Saint Peter.
Only God has the right to be his judge.

I have been reading your posts. Do you realize that no matter what you know or think you know, as a Woman in the Traditional church you wouldn't have been allowed to voice it? Doesn't that seem strange that BECAUSE of Vatican ll that you can say the things you are saying here?

I feel scandalized by you and others in this forum because of all the doubt you are casting about Pope Francis who is now the Head of Christ's Church on earth.

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OK. St. Peter was the first Pope, was he not? OK. Did he betray Jesus, not once, not twice, but three times? What authority do you have to judge that fact? The CHURCH teaches us this, as it is the Church who tells us the revealed doctrines. I am speaking of things that have to do with objective facts that are protected by the Church's teachings (intrinsic tradition) and how they are guarded (by extrinsic tradition) in the liturgy and canons. That is not my authority, but by the Holy Mother Church. You're just shooting the messenger.

Only God has a right to judge the state of a soul, but His Church HE gives the right to determine doctrine from what has been handed down. We have doctrines.



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Apr 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Lynea-297530 said: OK. St. Peter was the first Pope, was he not? OK. Did he betray Jesus, not ...
(Quote) Lynea-297530 said:


OK. St. Peter was the first Pope, was he not? OK. Did he betray Jesus, not once, not twice, but three times? What authority do you have to judge that fact? The CHURCH teaches us this, as it is the Church who tells us the revealed doctrines. I am speaking of things that have to do with objective facts that are protected by the Church's teachings (intrinsic tradition) and how they are guarded (by extrinsic tradition) in the liturgy and canons. That is not my authority, but by the Holy Mother Church. You're just shooting the messenger.

Only God has a right to judge the state of a soul, but His Church HE gives the right to determine doctrine from what has been handed down. We have doctrines.



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I have not dishonered the Pope anymore than I dishonor St. Peter by pointing out that he betrayed our Lord three times. I am not saying that his office is of less dignity for what he did wrong, and I certainly do not think he isn't holy (I am not judging St. Peter's soul as being condemned). What you are saying is judgmental, in fact.

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