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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Apr 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: That's all true, and not a word of it contradicts anything I've said. And ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

That's all true, and not a word of it contradicts anything I've said.

And none of it changes the fact that the Vatican has repeatedly asked the faithful to not attend SSPX chapels because of (among other things) the real danger of falling into a "schismatic mindset" (Vatican's words).

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What about losing the faith in the Novus Ordo. scratchchin shhh shhh shhh

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Apr 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: In your opinion.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

In your opinion.

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Since my opinion is in line with every Pope I have persoal knolwedge of, which inlcudes most of them in the 20th century, I,at least, have grounds to stand on for my opinion.

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Apr 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: In your opinion. Since my...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

In your opinion.


Since my opinion is in line with every Pope I have persoal knolwedge of, which inlcudes most of them in the 20th century, I,at least, have grounds to stand on for my opinion.

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If you say so.

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: What about losing the faith in the Novus Ordo.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

What about losing the faith in the Novus Ordo.

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If a person loses their faith in the Novus Ordo, it is their failing, not the Mass's.

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: What about losing the faith in the Novus Ordo.
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

What about losing the faith in the Novus Ordo.


If a person loses their faith in the Novus Ordo, it is their failing, not the Mass's.

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Wrong! It's the fault of the lukewarm,and liberal clergy.That's what all fail to understand and what the SSPX preach.It's about the Faith!

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Wrong! It's the fault of the lukewarm,and liberal clergy.That's what all fail to understa...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Wrong! It's the fault of the lukewarm,and liberal clergy.That's what all fail to understand and what the SSPX preach.It's about the Faith!

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Which proves my statement that anyone who loses their Faith over the Novus Ordo does so from within themselves and not from the Mass.

Lukewarm and liberal clergy is a description of personal failures of those clergy who are luke warm and or improperly liberal.

What the SSPX preaches is nonsense. If it were not, it would not be separated from Rome.

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Wrong! It's the fault of the lukewarm,and li...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

Wrong! It's the fault of the lukewarm,and liberal clergy.That's what all fail to understand and what the SSPX preach.It's about the Faith!


Which proves my statement that anyone who loses their Faith over the Novus Ordo does so from within themselves and not from the Mass.

Lukewarm and liberal clergy is a description of personal failures of those clergy who are luke warm and or improperly liberal.

What the SSPX preaches is nonsense. If it were not, it would not be separated from Rome.

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What they preach is what the Church has always taught and handed down.How could what has always been regarded as Catholic suddenly not be Catholic anymore Paul?

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: No dognma, doctrine or teaching of the Church was or is changed by The Novus Ordo.
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

No dognma, doctrine or teaching of the Church was or is changed by The Novus Ordo.

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Exactly.Tell the Bishops that Paul.They obviously didn't get the message. scratchchin

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Apr 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Exactly.Tell the Bishops that Paul.They obviously didn't get the message.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Exactly.Tell the Bishops that Paul.They obviously didn't get the message.

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Apprently you haven't either.

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Apr 3rd 2013 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: You demonstrate a great ability to read your own meaning into what a Pope said. N...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:



You demonstrate a great ability to read your own meaning into what a Pope said.



No dognma, doctrine or teaching of the Church was or is changed by The Novus Ordo. The essential parts of the Mass are there now as they have been since the Last Supper. For anyone to claim it does is sheer, unadulterated nonsense.



Indirectly condeming Vatican II, as you have, demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge of what the Council said and did.

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Getting personal aren't we. I've read the documents of Vatican II, and they really have very little to do with how the curia and bishops went about implementing it in the years following the council.

Let me put it this way. The Novus Ordo is an ecumenical stumbling block to unity with the Orthodox because it was a synthetic work of a committee rather than an organic development.

Too many older Catholics are stuck in the "Spirit of Vatican II" and what Pope Benedict called the "hermaneutic of rupture" rather than continuity. Vatican II has to be understood in the light of the councils and Church fathers that preceded it and not in the light of the idol of human progress.

My criticism is aimed at the implementation of Vatican II and the interpretation that bishops, "theologians" and others gave the council.
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