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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-221057 said: What proof do you have that Canada has a socialist government? FYI, we have a majority Conservativ...
(Quote) John-221057 said:

What proof do you have that Canada has a socialist government? FYI, we have a majority Conservative government right now. The difference is our Conservative Party isn't crazy.

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I'll let the others on here answer you since they are so much better than me at it and I really want to get back to my topic. However, I will say one thing....what proof do you have that it isn't socialist? Between socialized medicine (that forces tax payers to pay for abortions and birth control no doubt) and that hate speech law you have that doesn't even allow people to teach what the moslem religion is all about...not hatefully but factually... thus prevents freedom of speech....I'd say it is pretty socialist. Indeed, just the way you talk showing your envy of the wealthy (confession time perhaps?) shows you lean that way yourself. Believe it or not, poor people who take responsibility for their lives and live within their means can be very happy as well. What saddens me is that since the culture has ousted God in our country more and more too, that we also are leaning towards socialism. Also, we would definitely have a different definition of conservatism. I think what was said about the most liberal city here, WA, run by democrats, having the richest people living off govt. and the poorest people living like the serfs in the times of kings and queens says it all for how our country is headed if we don't get back to our values that this nation was founded on.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: I heard on EWTN that during times of persecuti...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

I heard on EWTN that during times of persecution of our faith that the key to changing it was through the culture not politics....makes a lot of sense. He gave the example of shakespeare who did not run for office or start a political party during the Elizabethan age when Catholics were being killed but instead, he wrote plays. If you think about it, this makes a lot of sense. Who owns the culture now except the unreligious liberals? And their values have been spreading everywhere since they started "owning" it.


YOur thoughts?


Cheryl I think that you are so right about changing the society through culture. Lucifer was in charge of the music in heaven before he got thrown out and you can see his influence in the music and the celebrity culture surrounding music today. Everything from the blatant sexuality and endorsement of promiscuity to the blatant satanic pulse that some of the rock groups promote. Our children are changing before our eyes by the music they listen to.

Music influences on a deep level and touches us on both a concious and subconcious level. Our society is being formed by unscrupulous and evil music industry giants with anin your face anti-God and anti-morals agenda and anyone who is not able to see that is blind.

Music once used to elevate the mind is now being used to dumb it down and debase the dignity of us as humans. When you think of it on a spiritual level it all makes sense. Satan's issue with God was that he elevated the dignity of man to higher than that of the angels so it makes sense that he uses his gift to cause man to reject the plan of God and to lower his dignity.That is the end goal; for man to never realize his worth.

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How interesting. I'd never heard that about satan being in charge of the music when he was in heaven. Where do you reference that from? I think he has definitely gotten a foothold here on earth now too like you say, but thankfully we have Christian music (praying twice) also, which is what I listen to.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: I'll let the others on here answer you since they are so much better than me at it and I rea...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

I'll let the others on here answer you since they are so much better than me at it and I really want to get back to my topic. However, I will say one thing....what proof do you have that it isn't socialist? Between socialized medicine (that forces tax payers to pay for abortions and birth control no doubt) and that hate speech law you have that doesn't even allow people to teach what the moslem religion is all about...not hatefully but factually... thus prevents freedom of speech....I'd say it is pretty socialist. Indeed, just the way you talk showing your envy of the wealthy (confession time perhaps?) shows you lean that way yourself. Believe it or not, poor people who take responsibility for their lives and live within their means can be very happy as well. What saddens me is that since the culture has ousted God in our country more and more too, that we also are leaning towards socialism. Also, we would definitely have a different definition of conservatism. I think what was said about the most liberal city here, WA, run by democrats, having the richest people living off govt. and the poorest people living like the serfs in the times of kings and queens says it all for how our country is headed if we don't get back to our values that this nation was founded on.

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If you read my posts carefully, you'd notice that envy has nothing to do with anything here. You're simply making up a position for me that I don't have.

These are examples of rich people who have earned their wealth and deserve every penny of it:

- Bill Gates

- Steve Jobbs

- Henry Ford

These people earned their fortunes because they invented products that people want to buy because they help make their lives easier. I have no problem with someone who earns their wealth like that.

The problem I have is with people who make money by stealing from others, like the Wall Street banksters.

Apr 6th 2013 new

Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that you come up with $400,000 dollars. Would you be able to afford that? Unless you're rich, I would assume not.

I love our universal health care in Canada. My grandfather died of cancer and the amount of care he received over the years would have cost well over $1 million dollars. There's no way my family could have come up with that kind of money.

I like the security of knowing that if I ever need health care I'll get it and it won't bankrupt me.

When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer she got timely surgery and radiation treatment afterwards, and now she's been fine for 13 years. Under your system that would have bankrupted my family.

I think you really have no idea what socialism is.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-221057 said: Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that yo...
(Quote) John-221057 said:

Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that you come up with $400,000 dollars. Would you be able to afford that? Unless you're rich, I would assume not.

I love our universal health care in Canada. My grandfather died of cancer and the amount of care he received over the years would have cost well over $1 million dollars. There's no way my family could have come up with that kind of money.

I like the security of knowing that if I ever need health care I'll get it and it won't bankrupt me.

When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer she got timely surgery and radiation treatment afterwards, and now she's been fine for 13 years. Under your system that would have bankrupted my family.

I think you really have no idea what socialism is.

--hide--


In the United States, health care costs have been out of control ever since the government entered the marketplace in the 1960's. Government run health care is a 3rd party payer system...those receiving the health care services do not directly bear the costs of the services, a third party pays for everything. This distorts the marketplace in a couple of ways. First there is an over-demand for services...since someone else foots the bill why not use all the services possible. This is what leads to rationing...since the demand outstrips the supply, someone has to decide who gets the available services and who does not. In the government run system this is not the doctor or the patient but likely a government bureaucrat who understands little other than how much the service in question costs. In the United States the Affordable Care Act was not complete without its 15 man panel for rationing health services. Worst of all, the third party payer system destroys the doctor to patient relationship. No longer does the patient go to the doctor and discuss what is wrong and agree on the best treatment option...it is the third party payer (government) that dictates the treatment options to be had.

Much better for everyone involved would be a return to a more traditional model of insurance. Risks are pooled so that when you have a catastrophic event, the insurance pays. Otherwise, you have a high deductible insurance such that you have a stake in the cost of everyday expenses which incentivizes you to lead a healthier life style and shop around for your health care to keep costs down. These days the high deductible plans have Health Savings Accounts which can be funded with tax deductible dollars and are used to pay the high deductible. If you are young and healthy and lead a healthy lifestyle you likely won't spend everything in your Health Savings Account you and you can carry the balance over to next year...thus saving for health care expenses in the future. Even better would be Dr. Ben Carson's idea to let people donate money to each other's Health Savings Accounts. It would be a great way to help the poor and less fortunate without taking away their dignity, and it would also allow the elderly a chance to directly help the younger generation without the government to take its cut of the money to pay its bloated bureauchracy.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-221057 said: Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that yo...
(Quote) John-221057 said:

Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that you come up with $400,000 dollars. Would you be able to afford that? Unless you're rich, I would assume not.

I love our universal health care in Canada. My grandfather died of cancer and the amount of care he received over the years would have cost well over $1 million dollars. There's no way my family could have come up with that kind of money.

I like the security of knowing that if I ever need health care I'll get it and it won't bankrupt me.

When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer she got timely surgery and radiation treatment afterwards, and now she's been fine for 13 years. Under your system that would have bankrupted my family.

I think you really have no idea what socialism is.

--hide--
YOu may like it, but the little babies that are tortured do not like it nor do the tax payers with a conscience like it. I think you can look up the definition for socialism yourself and find that we do indeed know what it is. My sister-in-law got cancer and they didn't have insurance because she quit her job when she got sick. Yet, she was NEVER denied treatment. She ended up being labeled handicapped and got the free health care she needed and guess what her illness bankrupped them...they loss their house....again, govt. stepped in and helped them and they are now buying another house. We have the necessary safety nets for those who truly do need it. What we don't need is more govt. and more abuses including forcing people to pay to kill babies and killing babies....sorry but your fear makes you think of only yourself! I refuse to do this!!!

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: How interesting. I'd never heard that about satan being in charge of the music when he was i...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

How interesting. I'd never heard that about satan being in charge of the music when he was in heaven. Where do you reference that from? I think he has definitely gotten a foothold here on earth now too like you say, but thankfully we have Christian music (praying twice) also, which is what I listen to.

--hide--

I know that they often quote Ezekiel 28: 11-14 to say that and was once told this somewhere along the way. ( Not sure exactly when) Here is a link to a Catholic answers thread that addresses this and it appears that the Hebrew translated directly imply instruments but the English interpretation seems to relate to jewels. You can read it at this link.

forums.catholic.com

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) John-221057 said: Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
John-221057 said:

Another question. Suppose you got cancer or had a heart attack, and the treatment requires that you come up with $400,000 dollars. Would you be able to afford that? Unless you're rich, I would assume not.

I love our universal health care in Canada. My grandfather died of cancer and the amount of care he received over the years would have cost well over $1 million dollars. There's no way my family could have come up with that kind of money.

I like the security of knowing that if I ever need health care I'll get it and it won't bankrupt me.

When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer she got timely surgery and radiation treatment afterwards, and now she's been fine for 13 years. Under your system that would have bankrupted my family.

I think you really have no idea what socialism is.


YOu may like it, but the little babies that are tortured do not like it nor do the tax payers with a conscience like it. I think you can look up the definition for socialism yourself and find that we do indeed know what it is. My sister-in-law got cancer and they didn't have insurance because she quit her job when she got sick. Yet, she was NEVER denied treatment. She ended up being labeled handicapped and got the free health care she needed and guess what her illness bankrupped them...they loss their house....again, govt. stepped in and helped them and they are now buying another house. We have the necessary safety nets for those who truly do need it. What we don't need is more govt. and more abuses including forcing people to pay to kill babies and killing babies....sorry but your fear makes you think of only yourself! I refuse to do this!!!

--hide--

All I know is our system saved my family from bankruptcy, and many others.

I'm glad everything worked out will for your sister-in-law because of these "socialist" government policies, but there are many instances of people dying because they can't afford health care. That is not exactly what I call a conscience. There has never been any incidents of this happening in Canada or in any of the other industrial countries. I call our system people taking care of people.

I think lots of people here need to remember Jesus telling us blessed are the poor and woe to the rich, and "what you do to the least of those who are my brothers, you do to me."

It's funny you play the abortion card when I never said that I supported abortion. I think I made it clear in my first post that I have the same position as you on that: I'm pro-life.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Lynea-297530 said: A response from a conservative: You wrote, "I find that many conser...
(Quote) Lynea-297530 said:

A response from a conservative:

You wrote, "I find that many conservatives have no sense of social justice. They will do anything and everything to make sure rich people the tax breaks they don't need, even if it means doing things that hurt ordinary people."

First of all, what do you mean by "social justice"? Justice is a virtue that has to do with a person's right to what is theirs, whether material or non-material. What you aree referring to, however, is charity such as to the underprivileged and poor. Avarice, by the way, is a sin. "Social Justice" that takes from one person because they have more, and givess to another what is not theirs by justice, is not justice at all. However, regarding charity, which iis what you really meant to say, at least if we define our terms for this discussion by those of Holy Mother Church (see St. Thomas Aquinas's definitions on "Justice" and on "Charity", for example), then we are faced with the glaring facts that only the more conservative orders have done the most in organizing and executing charities for the poor. One of the reasons is because the traditional Catholic knows that egalitarianism is a heresy. And, without having wealthy donors, who have the right to spend and donate their money which they earned (and in the country, without exploiting tthe poorest workers, as they do in socialist and communist countries --- see Rerum Novarum and Quadrogesimo Ano), we do not have the ability to have charities and the financial support for religious orders that hold to the teaching's of the Church, and also do eithher or both corporal and spiritual works of mercy.

You wrote, "they oppose doing things that help the environment. Big tobacco used the same tricks big oil is using now to spread confusion, denial in the face of clear scientific evidence." HHmmm, I'm a conservative, and I am for supporting the environment. I think your issue iis that we don't buy into false science like "global warming", which has been understood now to be false, and has been since renamed to "Climate Change". It's a moving target meant to confuse people into looking at platforms that are not as important as things like prolife and profamily issues .

You wrote, "they favour harsh criminal sentences for anyone everyone except the crooked Wallstreet banksters who stole billions and took family's homes awy from them." I am a conservative and I know this isn't true at all about favoring leniency on bankers. I hear the liberals say this a lot, but I've not heard one single conservative author or celebrity support this. It is out right false. Your issue with "harsh criminal sentences" ---- you'd have to elaborte. I know many conservatives arre not against the death penalty for certain crimes like murders who are sane but make murder a habit.

You wrote," they say they have family values but promote policies that hurt families: trying to destroy any help people get from the state (medicare, medicaid, social security, etc., welfare)." Conservatives tend to be PRO FAMILY and that is why they are wary about things as "entitlements", which is really a lie and a euphemism for giving the government more control. Most conservatives ARE NOT against medicare or social security benefits, for example, and even support medicaid in certain circumstances. As a-matter-oof-fact, they support them MORE than most liberals because they realize that widening spending on actual entitlements OVER benefits will WEAKEN and eventually outright kill these programs. Also, what is the sense of paying out more entitlements to the point that ALL citizens, to one degrere or another, will have their healthcare quality dramtically diminish? And diminish it will, with less insurance companies able to compete in the market, and less medical personnel able to work in small offices (thanks to neww HIPPA data act being enforced), and tthanks to the Fedeeral Government indimidating doctors away from diagnosing accurately and honestly any disease that falls into the CDC list for epidemological diseases to be flagged. No, conservatives are for family values and want to stop the liberal agenda from hurting families and singles.

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"think your issue iis that we don't buy into false science like "global warming", which has been understood now to be false, and has been since renamed to "Climate Change". It's a moving target meant to confuse people into looking at platforms that are not as important as things like prolife and profamily issues "

You've just proved my point. biggrin

Time for a quick lesson on basic science:

- Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere traps heat

- More carbon dioxide = more heat trapped in the atmosphere

- Result = unnatural levels of heat, and thus "global warming" or "climate change"

- some sources of carbon dioxide going into the atmosphere: automobiles, factories, coal plants

See, I know my science and I'm not going to believe a bunch of pseudoscience spouted by oil lobbyists. Real science is actually very simple, but what those who try to distort it do so by making it seem more complext than it is.

Apr 6th 2013 new
(Quote) John-221057 said: All I know is our system saved my family from bankruptcy, and many others. ...
(Quote) John-221057 said:





All I know is our system saved my family from bankruptcy, and many others.



I'm glad everything worked out will for your sister-in-law because of these "socialist" government policies, but there are many instances of people dying because they can't afford health care. That is not exactly what I call a conscience. There has never been any incidents of this happening in Canada or in any of the other industrial countries. I call our system people taking care of people.



I think lots of people here need to remember Jesus telling us blessed are the poor and woe to the rich, and "what you do to the least of those who are my brothers, you do to me."



It's funny you play the abortion card when I never said that I supported abortion. I think I made it clear in my first post that I have the same position as you on that: I'm pro-life.

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We have provided much documentation in previous threads about the grave dangers of government-controlled socialized medicine.

Shona Holmes, a Canadian citizen, tells the story of her life-threatening condition, and the failures of Canada's health care system. The treatment Shona received in the U.S. saved her life, but President Obama is making our healthcare system more like Canada's. www.youtube.com

Dangers of Socialized Medicine - This video is an excerpt of the testimony of Richard Baker to the Health Care Solutions Committee on July 23, 2009. Mr. Baker offers examples of problems he has personally witnessed with the Canadian single payer health care system. www.youtube.com

Filmmaker Stuart Browning shows the callousness of "single-payer", government-run health care systems as practiced in Canada. www.youtube.com

Socialized Medicine Nightmare in Britain - USA Beware www.youtube.com
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