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Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-793888 said: One of the things that Christopher West likes to say at his live talks is worth repeating, becaus...
(Quote) Peter-793888 said:

One of the things that Christopher West likes to say at his live talks is worth repeating, because I personally think it's brilliant (especially to those who are not married or have visions of what married life will be like).

He starts off by telling the joke that there are 4 rings to marriage, 1 engagement ring, 2 wedding rings, and after that, the suffering. As the audience does a mix between laughter, and some shocked faces he normally says "I'm willing to bet that the married couples in the room are the ones who are not laughing right now."


He then goes onto add that anyone who thinks true love does not require true sacrafice does not understand what love is, and should get down on their knees and spend time contemplating the crucifix.

I know there are those that are appaled to hear a joke like that about marriage, but it is true, love requires sacrafice.

--hide--


Peter, I do recall his "4 rings of marriage" as it made my former spouse very uncomfortable; he did NOT like the fourth ring (suffering) AT ALL. He didn't want to think that even for a minute he might have to "suffer" to make the marriage work. After the TOB talks from CW my former spouse and I talked several times about the "suffering" and there was no changing his mind. At the time I was in semi-denial about his bipolar diagnosis and did not realize that he was already suffering tremendously from untreated bipolar. He couldn't deal with anymore "suffering"; the suffering he was experiencing from his untreated bipolar illness was already more than he could handle.


CW has lots of good things to say in TOB, BUT I still say he is an opportunist. There isn't anything morally wrong with being an opportunist, unless they are causing people to stray from the truth.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-793888 said: One of the things that Christopher West likes to say at his live talks is worth repeating, becaus...
(Quote) Peter-793888 said:

One of the things that Christopher West likes to say at his live talks is worth repeating, because I personally think it's brilliant (especially to those who are not married or have visions of what married life will be like).

He starts off by telling the joke that there are 4 rings to marriage, 1 engagement ring, 2 wedding rings, and after that, the suffering. As the audience does a mix between laughter, and some shocked faces he normally says "I'm willing to bet that the married couples in the room are the ones who are not laughing right now."


He then goes onto add that anyone who thinks true love does not require true sacrafice does not understand what love is, and should get down on their knees and spend time contemplating the crucifix.

I know there are those that are appaled to hear a joke like that about marriage, but it is true, love requires sacrafice.

--hide--


Peter, I do recall his "4 rings of marriage" as it made my former spouse very uncomfortable; he did NOT like the fourth ring (suffering) AT ALL. He didn't want to think that even for a minute he might have to "suffer" to make the marriage work. After the TOB talks from CW my former spouse and I talked several times about the "suffering" and there was no changing his mind. At the time I was in semi-denial about his bipolar diagnosis and did not realize that he was already suffering tremendously from untreated bipolar. He couldn't deal with anymore "suffering"; the suffering he was experiencing from his untreated bipolar illness was already more than he could handle.


CW has lots of good things to say in TOB, BUT I still say he is an opportunist. There isn't anything morally wrong with being an opportunist, unless they are causing people to stray from the truth.

Apr 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Mick-929473 said: I am glad he is more clear in person but the book I bought for my Kindle did not have...
(Quote) Mick-929473 said:


I am glad he is more clear in person but the book I bought for my Kindle did not have eirther the Nihil Obstat or the Imprimatur. Based on what people have posted it must of been the exception. The title of the book is:


"Heaven’s Song Sexual Love as it was Meant to Be"


It is based on material JPII wrote on TOB but never presented. It must not of been "just right" for the Church.


Mick

--hide--


No, the reason it was not delivered is that JP thought it was too delicate for a general audience with children. His reflections come from writings of the saints.

Apr 7th 2013 new

Wow, I'm sorry I missed out on the beginnings of this original post! I wanted to mention something that I didn't see a whole lot of in the 73 posts thusfar: personal stories of enlightenment from ANY theology of the body source, be it original JPII or West, or anyone else's book or talk.

I would like to vouch for West's CD from the Mary Foundation called, "Marriage and the Eucharist." I think it might be re-titled now, but when I listened to that CD (a 45-minute scratching of the surface of TOB) it moved me deeply. I had just separated from my husband and was in counseling for post-trauma from the discovery of his long-standing sex addiction. I was inspired to purchase the 10-CD set of West's more in-depth talks on TOB, and it truly opened my heart to receive the healing power of the Holy Spirit. I realized that I had been nothing but an object to my husband for all those years, and that my whole understanding of my own sexuality was now warped and needed healing. His talks made so much sense to me, and I could tell without his even sharing it that he had been addicted to sex in the past.

My point in sharing all this? Perhaps it matters not so much the details or sins or tendencies of the author himself/herself. Perhaps what does matter is that somewhere in the writing there is a knock at the door of a soul, and somewhere in the writing is an invitation to open the door to the healing power of the Spirit, Who always knows the right time, the right place, the right circumstances where healing is so very, very necessary for the soul.

I appreciate the references to other authors - will definitely check those out. I can only hope that many people will continue to be moved by TOB to a new, pure, beautiful understanding of how the desire for complete and total union with God is the ultimate meaning of life and desire of every soul!!

Apr 7th 2013 new

My life has been changed from TOB, first learning through Christopher West. I have one class more before I get my certification from the TOB instititute. I feel like I now see in color.

Jun 28th 2013 new

I know I am about to bring the wrath of many upon myself, but I going to say this anyway: I have always thought that there was something fishy about Chris West. It seems to me that Chris West and his gang of cohorts(mostly generation x-ers) have run amok with their own interpretation of TOB; there is a whole network of these people. This is the danger with the lay people being empowered: you have to use extreme caution in discerning someones message. I recommend reading Fr. Angelo Geigers criticisms as they come from someone who take the scholastic approach to theology.




Jun 28th 2013 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said:

I know I am about to bring the wrath of many upon myself, but I going to say this anyway: I have always thought that there was something fishy about Chris West.


He DOES come across as fishy. It's strange how he appeals to a very specific audience as well; it seems to me mostly women in their 40-60's (those are the people that have always tried to push him on me, anyway). I find him very off-putting with his protestant style and sensationalism.

I have even read of some translational disputes regarding Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body talks and the talks Christopher West calls Theology of the Body. It seems that some are saying (or have been for several years) that Christopher West is working off of a bad translation of the Pope's talks...and that when this became mainstream knowledge he still did nothing to change what he was teaching.
Jun 28th 2013 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: He DOES come across as fishy. It's strange how he appeals to a very specific audience as well; it seems to me mostly women in their 40-60's (those are the people that have always tried to push him on me, anyway). I find him very off-putting with his protestant style and sensationalism.

I have even read of some translational disputes regarding Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body talks and the talks Christopher West calls Theology of the Body. It seems that some are saying (or have been for several years) that Christopher West is working off of a bad translation of the Pope's talks...and that when this became mainstream knowledge he still did nothing to change what he was teaching.
You're right; it seems to be a bunch of 40-50 yr-olds who are really pushing it down others' throats. If you notice, there is one thing that seems to be absent in their conversations: FEAR OF THE LORD. That's a warning signal right there.
Jun 28th 2013 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: You're right; it seems to be a bunch of 40-50 yr-olds who are really pushing it down others' throats. If you notice, there is one thing that seems to be absent in their conversations: FEAR OF THE LORD. That's a warning signal right there.
Greg great observation in regards to the absence of "fear of the Lord" by CW. So much of the past 50 years of catholic church teachings, since Vatican 2, have ommitted fear of the Lord. As I have said before listening to CW speak is like listening to an alcoholic speak at an AA convention. I think it would be great if he targeted the sex addict population as his focus group for his talks and left the interpretation of encyclicals up to those educated in catholic theology. He is definitely "fishy".
Jun 28th 2013 new
Joan, you're right about the lack of God-fearing among the faithful in modern times. It's as if people now want to worship the product and ignore the Creator.
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