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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Chelsea, do you honestly think that there are more that separates us than unites us?
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Chelsea, do you honestly think that there are more that separates us than unites us?

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Yes.

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Nah, I didn't think it was hard.
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Nah, I didn't think it was hard.

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One problem with Sola Scriptura, "What was being done or what was happening in the first few hundred years before all the books were brought together to form the Bible. A simple test for an advocate for Sola Scriptura, "Show me where in the Bible it tells you how the books of the Bible are to be arranged and in what particular order??" Who made the choice of order and by what criteria did they make their decision in arranging the books. If Sola Scriptura were a fact it would have that information covered somewhere in the Bible. pope

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: I guess only silly, things like the fact that both Catholics and Protestants believe that...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

I guess only silly, things like the fact that both Catholics and Protestants believe that Christ is the Son of God sent to redeem humanity, or there is that unimportant acceptance of the New Testament as Holy Scripture. Of course we all pray that "Our Father" thing, but that can't matter because it was given to us by that Jesus guy, and he was't even important enough to make your list of things that unite us...

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Right...let's examine that:

Of course, since there is no uniting factor even amongst the protestants, my examination is only referring to protestants in general.

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who instituted one Church with priests for offering sacrifice, sacraments for the sanctification of its members, and a vicar to teach, govern and sanctify its members.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who didn't really mean what he said or did, and leaves this all up to personal interpretation, based upon what they call the sole guidance of "faith" (which pretty much means "whatever gives me a pleasant feeling") and the sole "authority" of the "bible" (which basically means "whatever fits in with my own agenda").

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who taught that if we do not eat His Body and drink His Blood we will not have life in us.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who didn't really mean that, and so allows them to wrest his words to their own interpretations in regard to the Holy Eucharist.

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who is God and man. God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the ages; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God, perfect man, subsisting of a rational soul and human flesh. Equal to the Father according to His Godhead, less than the Father according to His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but One Christ. One, however, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by the taking of humanity into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as a reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is One Christ. He suffered for our salvation and descended into hell. On the third day He rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming all shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good shall go into eternal life, but those who have done evil shall go into eternal fire.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who they're not quite clear on just who or what he is...oh, yeah, some call him the "son of God", whether they know what it means or not.

Catholics profess to believe in the original sin and actual sin, from which Christ was sent to redeem us, but that we can spurn that redemption and turn back to sin...and that we can embrace that redemption again once we've fallen.

Protestants profess to believe in some vague notion of sin (some treat it like sin is a "whatever 'I' don't like" thing, some just plain don't know but use the word anyway) that since Christ's work of redemption, as long as they merely profess with their mouths to "accept Christ as their personal savior" they don't have to worry about ever again.

Catholics profess to believe in the scripture canon given us, for example, as laid down in the Council of Trent.

Protestants don't have any unified profession on this. There's no guarantee from one "bible" to another that there is any conformity, whether in the New or Old Testament.

I agree that Catholics do offer the Pater Noster...Protestants offer the Lord's Prayer which is appendixed by some addition from their own tradition, which is silly, since they refute tradition with their mouths.

So...it seems to me that Catholics profess to believe in a Christ they know, whereas protestants profess to believe in a Christ who is either a liar (since he always blathers on saying things he doesn't really mean) or who they do not have any real knowledge of.

I'd say that's quite a division...and not much of a unification.




04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Theresa-110510 said: Jesus Christ founded Christianity; and this division was created by those leavi...
(Quote) Theresa-110510 said:





Jesus Christ founded Christianity; and this division was created by those leaving the faith as well as by Catholicism. Had we been living our faith as we were meant to, those groups which fell away would have returned centuries ago. As it is, if it weren't for different Protestant denominations, many would have no Christian fellowship at all - which has been God's intention always - we were not created to live in isolation. It is absolutely impossible to keep our faith without support of those also believing it - and our church simply couldn't give a crap about how many fall away. It's been going on my entire life, and they know it. Our clerics would rather 'annul' a marriage than help the right people find one another in the first place, it makes their job easier. And they'd rather see young people fall away from their faith (most likely to atheism) than talk about the hard topics like SEX. Wouldn't it have been better for them to have been brought up Protestant?

I'm not attacking our faith, its beliefs are correct, it's practice is what's been slowly killing it and the faith of so many. I have responded here for the most part as I know many very good Christians who are Protestants of different denominations and they live by their faith in Christ; socialize with others in their faith; are involved in many things. This isn't just seniors either! There's all sorts of stuff for young people and members of all ages and it is not a rarity to see their Christian young people practicing morality (no sex until marriage); whereas if we can even find an adult social group we have to hit off the stalkers/mashers with a stick.

Being here first doesn't win the argument, as they are Christians too. Not only that; how can we say we are His followers if we don't live His teachings; but only talk them? I thought I'd have done several missionary trips by now (would have had I been Protestant. I'd also have been married; and could have converted later.) A lot of Protestants know what they believe in; they also can see what we believe in and likely can't understand why we think Christ's only teaching was the Last Supper; and if we truly believe in Him as they've read we do - that we can have the scandals we do and have so many of our members fall away annually.

Actions have and will always speak louder than words.




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They have the scandals bur we get the Bad Press. All denominations have been scarred by pedophilia. The Press go for the throat of the Catholic Church because we are the most consistant in moral teaching and our teachings don't follow which way the wind blows. The theory is if they can destroy the Catholic Church all the other Christian denominations will just splinter and fade away from accomodating every new fad. A bit like popular music trends of today.

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Yes.
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Yes.

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OK! I don't understand how you can do that but I respect your opinion.

04/09/2013 new
(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Yes we should definitely act more like brothers and sisters than like enemies. Follow in Jesus footsteps.
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Yes we should definitely act more like brothers and sisters than like enemies. Follow in Jesus footsteps.

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I couldn't agree more!! Well said!! it seems people so often forget what Christianity is about, when they get into bitter arguments about who is right and who is wrong
04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: The Bible is a Catholic book. Protestantism is a heresy. That's not to say al...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

The Bible is a Catholic book.

Protestantism is a heresy. That's not to say all Protestants are heretics, most just don't know any better.

A great deal of modern catholics also have very little to be proud of in terms of faithfulness to the faith.

As it stands, I think we should be reunited against bigger enemies, ie. atheism, redefining marriage to accomodate same sex couples, abortion, et cetera.

An atheist told me once, how could he be a Christian when Christians couldn't even agree? I told him Catholicism was the only safe bet.

We were here first.

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Just to follow up on Naomi's observations, let's examine the First splinter of Protestantism. Their founder was a sex crazed axe murdering monarch that was looking to seal the lineage of the English throne with his bloodline and no other. Vanity of history. There was also the side benefit of removing all the sacred vessels and the gold doors of the tabernacles along with any gem stones found in these vessels. Little Henry filled up his coffers onthe carcasses of Bishops, Priests, Male and Female Religious and the loyal Catholic laity were hunted, tortured and killed in the fox hunt off season. Not a choice pedigree. One sad statement by Henry V111 was made on his death bed, when he said, " I now die in the odour of sanctity!" Tell that to the maggots, they will swallow anything!

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Right...let's examine that:Of course, since there is no uniting factor even...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Right...let's examine that:

Of course, since there is no uniting factor even amongst the protestants, my examination is only referring to protestants in general.

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who instituted one Church with priests for offering sacrifice, sacraments for the sanctification of its members, and a vicar to teach, govern and sanctify its members.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who didn't really mean what he said or did, and leaves this all up to personal interpretation, based upon what they call the sole guidance of "faith" (which pretty much means "whatever gives me a pleasant feeling") and the sole "authority" of the "bible" (which basically means "whatever fits in with my own agenda").

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who taught that if we do not eat His Body and drink His Blood we will not have life in us.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who didn't really mean that, and so allows them to wrest his words to their own interpretations in regard to the Holy Eucharist.

Catholics profess to believe in a Christ Who is God and man. God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the ages; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God, perfect man, subsisting of a rational soul and human flesh. Equal to the Father according to His Godhead, less than the Father according to His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but One Christ. One, however, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by the taking of humanity into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as a reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is One Christ. He suffered for our salvation and descended into hell. On the third day He rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming all shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good shall go into eternal life, but those who have done evil shall go into eternal fire.

Protestants profess to believe in a Christ who they're not quite clear on just who or what he is...oh, yeah, some call him the "son of God", whether they know what it means or not.

Catholics profess to believe in the original sin and actual sin, from which Christ was sent to redeem us, but that we can spurn that redemption and turn back to sin...and that we can embrace that redemption again once we've fallen.

Protestants profess to believe in some vague notion of sin (some treat it like sin is a "whatever 'I' don't like" thing, some just plain don't know but use the word anyway) that since Christ's work of redemption, as long as they merely profess with their mouths to "accept Christ as their personal savior" they don't have to worry about ever again.

Catholics profess to believe in the scripture canon given us, for example, as laid down in the Council of Trent.

Protestants don't have any unified profession on this. There's no guarantee from one "bible" to another that there is any conformity, whether in the New or Old Testament.

I agree that Catholics do offer the Pater Noster...Protestants offer the Lord's Prayer which is appendixed by some addition from their own tradition, which is silly, since they refute tradition with their mouths.

So...it seems to me that Catholics profess to believe in a Christ they know, whereas protestants profess to believe in a Christ who is either a liar (since he always blathers on saying things he doesn't really mean) or who they do not have any real knowledge of.

I'd say that's quite a division...and not much of a unification.




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Seriously Chelsea, will you please stop that "we and them" you are doing.

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-957633 said: I couldn't agree more!! Well said!! it seems people so often forget what Christianity is about, when...
(Quote) Naomi-957633 said: I couldn't agree more!! Well said!! it seems people so often forget what Christianity is about, when they get into bitter arguments about who is right and who is wrong
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Thank you Naomi! It just makes me so sad to see this behaviour.

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: Just to follow up on Naomi's observations, let's examine the First splinter of Pro...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

Just to follow up on Naomi's observations, let's examine the First splinter of Protestantism. Their founder was a sex crazed axe murdering monarch that was looking to seal the lineage of the English throne with his bloodline and no other. Vanity of history. There was also the side benefit of removing all the sacred vessels and the gold doors of the tabernacles along with any gem stones found in these vessels. Little Henry filled up his coffers onthe carcasses of Bishops, Priests, Male and Female Religious and the loyal Catholic laity were hunted, tortured and killed in the fox hunt off season. Not a choice pedigree. One sad statement by Henry V111 was made on his death bed, when he said, " I now die in the odour of sanctity!" Tell that to the maggots, they will swallow anything!

--hide--
Who was that "founder" of protestantism you are talking about? Are you referring to Henry VIII as the founder?

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