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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Seriously Chelsea, will you please stop that "we and them" you are doing.
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Seriously Chelsea, will you please stop that "we and them" you are doing.

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It is not an insult it is just a fact of history. Protestants are quite capable of being uncharitable to the Catholic faithful. Catholics have been hounded and discriminated against for centuries. Itm is historical fact. Web are expected to stand up for our faith without coming to blows. The Catholic Church is the one true Church there is no justification for "A Catholic Cringe" response. We are entitled to defend the true faith in a dignified manner. Christ demands that of us. They are in error fact! We are the most hounded hunted and hated religion on the planet. You don't bury Catholic truth for the sake of Ecumenism. That only builds a relationship based on falsehood. We are to defend and preach Truth, which is Christ. The Truth founded our Church we are obligated to defend and preserve this gift with dignity and respect for the Body of Christ and Holy Mother Church.

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: If there were not very major (theological) "things" that do unite Catholic...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

If there were not very major (theological) "things" that do unite Catholics and Protestants, then the Catholic Church would not even recognize Protestant baptism (which it does).

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Ed,

This is a false statement.

The reason the Catholic Church "recognizes" protestant baptisms in general is that they are a valid sacrament.

It is true that the ordinary minister of the sacrament of baptism is a Bishop, priest or deacon, but literally ANYONE can be an extraordinary minister of baptism.

All it takes is the minister with the intention to do as the Church does, and the proper form and matter. You can refer to the Council of Florence on that one, it goes quite in depth on it:

'Holy Baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the Body of the Church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." But we do not deny that true Baptism is conferred by the following words: "May this servant of Christ be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit;" or, "This person is baptized by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Since the Holy Trinity is the principle cause from which Baptism has its power and the minister is the instrumental cause who exteriorly bestows the sacrament, the sacrament is conferred if the action is performed by the minister with the invocation of the Holy Trinity. The minister of this sacrament is a priest, who is empowered to baptize in virtue of his office. But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the Church and intends to do what the Church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the Kingdom of Heaven and the vision of God.'

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: It is not an insult it is just a fact of history. Protestants are quite capable of being u...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

It is not an insult it is just a fact of history. Protestants are quite capable of being uncharitable to the Catholic faithful. Catholics have been hounded and discriminated against for centuries. It is historical fact. Web are expected to stand up for our faith without coming to blows. The Catholic Church is the one true Church there is no justification for "A Catholic Cringe" response. We are entitled to defend the true faith in a dignified manner. Christ demands that of us. They are in error fact! We are the most hounded hunted and hated religion on the planet. You don't bury Catholic truth for the sake of Ecumenism. That only builds a relationship based on falsehood. We are to defend and preach Truth, which is Christ. The Truth founded our Church we are obligated to defend and preserve this gift with dignity and respect for the Body of Christ and Holy Mother Church.

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Bohoo, they have been so bad to us because they have done this and that, eight hundred years ago, three hundred years ago or twenty five years ago. How about showing the kind forgiveness our Lord taught us in His prayer "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them who trespass against us". Or do you want God to memorize the long list of bad stuff you have done too?

Apr 9th 2013 new

Ofcourse he was the one that started the dominoes falling England. There is no need to go into Luther or Calvin and the list goes on. Henry the V111 was a major blow to the unity of religion. It was all based on politics, money, power, lust and greed. There are still places in Australia that won't employ a Catholic. I have experienced this discrimination. My grandfathers relatives gave their lives for the faith by being executed horribly at the hands of Henry's greedy minions. I suggest you take a trip over to America and do a tour of the Baptist dominated regions and announce your wish to sit and chat and be brothers. You may be greeted by White Sheets and a Firey Cross. There are still places where being a practising Catholic can be dangerous. Don't be too quick to condemn your fellow Catholics for bigotry or hatred. The histroy of Catholic Martyrs is still being written. We are all for Ecumenism and brotherhood but we need to be respected for our beliefs and unfortunately when the see saw comes down for recipricating tolerance that's not what we get. No we don't give up but we need to be street wise.

Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Jeff-959374 said: Very interesting issue! I hope I wouldn't hit anyone with anything, especially a bible! I don't see wh...
(Quote) Jeff-959374 said:

Very interesting issue! I hope I wouldn't hit anyone with anything, especially a bible! I don't see why people can't sit down with a cup of tea and have a discussion. Yes, indeed Christ did often talk with a sense of urgency about matters of faith. But I can't imagine this would be aggressive in any way. And there were also occasions like when He was with the woman at the well. That situation has the feel to me of a gentle conversation over a cup of tea. Somehow evangelization and discussions with other Christians (and beyond) ought to have some humility. The question is, as Pope Benedict put it, echoing St. Benedict perhaps, is 'who seeks God with a sincere heart?' People can be wrong on theological matters but sincere in their seeking.

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More often than not Catholics need to be prepared with apologetic answers for when their Protestant friends and family members go on the offensive.

Not that long ago I had lunch with a friend who is a fallen away Catholic who spent the entire lunch trying to get me to join his Evangelical sect.

Then I have to deal with my liberal Protestant family members with their misconceptions about Catholicism.

My feeling is that interfaith activities can be dangerous to the faith of the Catholic party considering that most American Catholics are not well-versed in the whys of Catholicism.
Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Bohoo, they have been so bad to us because they have done this and that, eight hundred years ago,...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Bohoo, they have been so bad to us because they have done this and that, eight hundred years ago, three hundred years ago or twenty five years ago. How about showing the kind forgiveness our Lord taught us in His prayer "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them who trespass against us". Or do you want God to memorize the long list of bad stuff you have done too?

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Gee! that's a great mature attitude your displaying. Are you that effective when your spreading the Lords love with our protestant brothers. Maybe you should read more books on manners and humility instead of bashing everyone around the head with your anti Church establishment routine. I've been around a lot longer than you and I have seen and experienced a lot more. So change your tone, your beginning to resemble a bigot against your own.

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: Gee! that's a great mature attitude your displaying. Are you that effective when your ...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

Gee! that's a great mature attitude your displaying. Are you that effective when your spreading the Lords love with our protestant brothers. Maybe you should read more books on manners and humility instead of bashing everyone around the head with your anti Church establishment routine. I've been around a lot longer than you and I have seen and experienced a lot more. So change your tone, your beginning to resemble a bigot against your own.

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Oh! and by the way I'm perfect and I pride myself on my humility! You shouldn't judge me like that, when I have achieved such perfection. Bask in my luminesence and learn. Hug a tree and let the chlorophyll run into to your veins. Peace to the universe! Star trek forever! I'm getting the hang of this, your a good influence!

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Bohoo, they have been so bad to us because they have done this and that, eight hundred years ago,...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Bohoo, they have been so bad to us because they have done this and that, eight hundred years ago, three hundred years ago or twenty five years ago. How about showing the kind forgiveness our Lord taught us in His prayer "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them who trespass against us". Or do you want God to memorize the long list of bad stuff you have done too?

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Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which whips animals out of the temple and overturns tables of money changers? Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which tells us not to cast what is holy to the dogs, nor pearls before swine? Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which instructed to shake even the dust of the city from one's sandals as a testament against those who would not receive Christ's disciples?

Or...are you suggesting that the "kind forgiveness" Christ taught was in opposition to the destruction of entire cities, the drowning of entire armies, the banning (and destruction) of entire peoples which He did or commanded before His incarnation?

The reality is, we can ASK in prayer that the Father forgive us or dismiss the debts we owe Him in the same fashion as we dismiss the debts of those who have contracted them against us, but that does not mean that everything is automatically fixed...or that the Father forgets our sins. We would still have the duty of making a sacramental confession in the case of mortal sin, and doing not only penance, but also satisfaction. The Council of Trent is pretty clear on that in the Fourteenth Session.

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: Oh! and by the way I'm perfect and I pride myself on my humility! You shouldn't ju...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

Oh! and by the way I'm perfect and I pride myself on my humility! You shouldn't judge me like that, when I have achieved such perfection. Bask in my luminesence and learn. Hug a tree and let the chlorophyll run into to your veins. Peace to the universe! Star trek forever! I'm getting the hang of this, your a good influence!

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Why the focus on the errors of others? That's basically all I'm asking. And pulling the age card isn't really necessary Con.

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which whips animals out of the t...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which whips animals out of the temple and overturns tables of money changers? Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which tells us not to cast what is holy to the dogs, nor pearls before swine? Are you talking about the "kind forgiveness" which instructed to shake even the dust of the city from one's sandals as a testament against those who would not receive Christ's disciples?

Or...are you suggesting that the "kind forgiveness" Christ taught was in opposition to the destruction of entire cities, the drowning of entire armies, the banning (and destruction) of entire peoples which He did or commanded before His incarnation?

The reality is, we can ASK in prayer that the Father forgive us or dismiss the debts we owe Him in the same fashion as we dismiss the debts of those who have contracted them against us, but that does not mean that everything is automatically fixed...or that the Father forgets our sins. We would still have the duty of making a sacramental confession in the case of mortal sin, and doing not only penance, but also satisfaction. The Council of Trent is pretty clear on that in the Fourteenth Session.

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Jesus could do all those things because He was free of sin. If you are free of sin then you might throw the first stone or overturn tables. If not, perhaps focusing on better yourself is a better way of spending time.

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