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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

Saint Peter's Square was created so that more people could be in the presence of the Pope and was named after Saint Peter, one of Jesus's apostles.
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How do I respond to this?

Apr 10th 2013 new

I wrote on a website about Jesus' ultimate sacrifice when I was confronted with this comment:

"Funny thing? I just cannot see Jesus approving of Christianity as a whole. I grew up Christian. Born and raised. But the more I grew up, the more questions I asked, the more I realized some things...

He was a Jewish Rabbi. His message was a simple one: Love Thy Neighbors. It wasn't a difficult message to understand... you didn't have to hate anymore. You didn't have to hate someone because they prayed to a different god. You didn't have to hate someone because they were born in a different nation. Or because they spoke a different language. Or had a different color of skin. That was all.

He never asked to be worshiped. "OUR FATHER, who art in heaven, hallowed be THY name. THY kingdom come, THY will be done...." seeing a pattern here? Heck, the very concept of Christianity breaks the first commandment "I am thy lord Jehova, and you shall have none before me". And the Crucifix breaks the second commandment of carving graven images to worship at. Which means it's also the Third commandment of taking the Lord's name in vain.

Quite bluntly, until Constantine, Christianity was a Jewish cult. Then he decided it would be a good way to get his new kingdom more firmly under control and thus the Council of Nicaea. The Catholic Church has a bloody history, ordering the death of some brilliant scientists, killing entire nations' worth of people, mostly peasants, in the pointless Crusades... oh, and let's not forget wholesale slaughter of religious figures from other religions, venerating St. Patrick for succeeding at genocide... and really, not a whole lot of 'love thy neighbor' going on.

The Catholic Church was founded to further the personal and political goals of the day. The Bible was translated with a particular slant (my father has a Masters of Divinity from SMU, and I got access to copies some of the original Greek and Hebrew transcripts), then King James had it translated into English with his own particular slant on the translations, which were largely misogynistic in nature.

Quite bluntly, it is my opinion that Christianity in general and Catholicism in specific are... well... blasphemous. Directly contradictory to the message Jesus tried to spread. And it is my opinion that Jesus would be spinning in his grave to see what was being done in His name... at least, if he had stayed in it.

Jesus died because of Mankind's arrogance and pride. Not for our sins, but because of them. His death does not wipe out sin, it exemplifies it. You venerate the death-by-torture of a wise and holy man whose message was so simple, yet so profound, that it threatened the very foundations of the established order. Because it was all based on fear, which generated hate. And if people stopped hating, they might realize this. And the people in power would no longer have a power base. Something that is still largely true to this day.

In two thousand years, we have learned how to harness the power of electricity, we have put a man on the moon... and yet we still have not been able to grasp the simple concept of not needing to hate anymore. To me, that is a much greater reason to mourn. "


I know it is mostly false information and corruption of the truth, but I am not currently knowledgable enough of the bible and our history. (This is something I am currently working to improve) How should I respond to this?

Apr 10th 2013 new

I'm probably not the right person to reply to this, but I found it comical (yes, comical). It's fairly obvious that this person is Jewish (in fact, if not in word), by the arguments made and the reference to the Old Testament Ten Commandments. I applaud this person for supposedly being anti-hate, but I think it's hilarious that the Jewish nation/people are collectively being painted as anti-hate. This isn't true, no matter how much history and society would like us to believe otherwise. Yes, the Jewish people have had a hard lot over the centuries, from the Egyptian Captivity to the Holocaust to present day disputes; I am in no way denying that. But no human is without hate; that is our inheritance of original sin. If we were looking for hatred on the part of the Jewish people, we can look at Christ's Crucifixion. After all, it was the Pharisees who goaded the people into crying for Christ's death. And if you want more recent proof that hatred isn't dead, I might ask why the Jews can't seem to get along with the Palestinians. OK, there's a religious dispute or there's a land dispute, but doesn't it all ultimately come down to "you're different than me, therefore I'm better or more deserving than you, and since you won't see that, therefore I hate you."

And for my injection of personal belief, hate will never disappear because pride will never disappear. And that's been my biggest observation of followers of Jewish thought. I can acknowledge that the Catholic Church has made mistakes over the centuries; let him who has not made a mistake cast the first stone. But with all deference to the Jews with whom I've had discussions over religious philosophy, they always see themselves as the victims -- of everything. There is no acknowledgement that they have in some way sinned or have otherwise displeased God, which at its roots is pride.

Apr 10th 2013 new

He goes off track with the phrase: "He never asked to be worshiped.", which is completely false or course. Everything falls apart from that point on.
False premises.

Incorrect reading and understanding of the correct basic premises of Christianlity. The first two commandments come FIRST. Not the other way around. If they don't you get lost very quickly as he/she proves.

Apr 10th 2013 new

Very interesting comments, in a way a guess.
Christ did say something else that is crucial, "I am the way the truth and the life, no one can go to the Father except through me..." In my opinion there are two things here, one, we cannot pick and chose what we want out of the Word and second, everything happens acording to God's plan, even other religions and many other things that we might not understand. I do not have to know everything about the scriptures to know that my North is the Lord, no matter how many doubts I might have during that journey, I have to stay focused on Him. So, pray for your friend, we are all lost in this world, and only God can show us the way!

Pray for me too!!!

Apr 10th 2013 new

The problem with this sort of stuff is its a little bit of a truth and a whole lot of ignorance of history and scripture. Together its a dangerous thing.

Christ is God. It says so in scripture. In the begining was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS God.

I forget where but when the apostles were on the boat in rough seas and they started getting affraid and Jesus was asleep. They woke him. In the orginial translation, Christ says "Dont' be affraid, I AM". I AM is how God introduced himself in the OT.

On top of this, people fail to grasp the concept of hypostatic union. Where Jesus is fully human and fully divine. In his fully human aspects are the limitations of human mind, when he talks about the Our Father, and not himself, when he speaks to God in the garden, when God speaks at his Baptism, when he speaks of no one knowing the time nor the place. He is talking of his ignorance in these things as a human person is ignorant. However, in his divine nature, he does know and expresses these things.

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