(Quote) Steve-650539 said:
(Quote) Keith-965841 said:
I think there is some confusion here. T...
(Quote) Steve-650539 said:
I think there is some confusion here. The Espiscopalian Church is the Anglican Church, it's just the name of the Anglian Church in the United States. They are all under Cantebury.
Now there are what they call "continuing Anglican Churches" such as the Anglican Catholics, or Charismatic Anglican Catholics, but these are all break aways from the overall Anglican Church. Anglican Catholics broke away in 1978 due to ordination of women and the abuse in their liturgy. They are under the jurisdiction of St. Louis.
The Anglican Church by and in large is very liberal here and around the world. Yes there are some dioceses that are more conservative such as Africa but they are becomig few and far between.
Finally the theology of the Anglican Church with regards to salavation when you get to the core is very reformed. That means calvinistic. Vastly different than what the Catholic Church believes although there were some early theologians such as Augustine who held to strict views of predestionation.
Technically you could be a borderline calvinist and still be Catholic but the Anglican Church is truly different than our Church, and there are some Anglicans who are very anti-Catholic. I do like their breviary and the 1928 common book of prayer. They are allowed to keep their liturgy and the 1928 common book of prayer. Their priests are allowed to stay married as they are in the Eastern Rite.
There are some Anglican Churches that have come into communion with Rome and they are referred to as Anglican use.
No, "they" are now referred to as Catholics. But they are called Anglican Use. anglicanuse.org
Never said they weren't so, I am not sure what your problem is here, Steve.
The Rite, or form, of the Mass is based on the Book of Divine Worship. "Anglican Use" refers to the liturgy. The people attending are fully Catholic. The term "Anglican Use" came out of the JPII's Pastoral Provision. I would argue it is a term that leads to too much misunderstanding to be used. Pope Benedict, with the publication of ANGLICANORUM COETIBUS, established the framework to bring Anglican Churches back into full communion with the Catholic Church. In the US, that is done through the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. www.usordinariate.org
Again I am not sure what your contention is, as i never once said that they were not Catholic. But Again the Church is referred to as Anglican Use and my comments actually reflect that in that they are allowed to use the 1928 Common Book of Prayer.
The Espiscopalian Church is the Anglican Church, it's just the name of the Anglian Church in the United States.
Let me rephrase, the American Epsicopal Church is outside the mainstream of the broader Anglican Church.
No it's not. That is like saying the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church is outside the mainstream of Catholicism. The Episcopal Church is the name of the Anglican Church in America. They both answer to Cantebury.
To compare the two is not really appropriate despite a common heritage.
There is no comparison and there is no "two" as they are one in the same.
Cantebury has little to no moral or secular authority. The Episcopalian parishes that did conform to more traditional Christian beliefs formed the Anglican Church in North America and have strong ties to the Anglicans in the Global South.
Different diocese such as Africa are either more conservative, meaning that they hold to the Seven Ecumenical Counsels, much like Eastern Orthodoxy. The Church as a whole is basically very liberal and fights with those who are liberal. In fact some have broken away such as the Anglican Catholics who are no longer part of Cantebury.
The Anglican Church is not "very reformed". The English Reformation and the Reformation that happened on the European continent were not the same.
Your comment above reflects that you don't know what I'm speaking about. You're comparing apples and oranges. I never said that the English Reformation and the Protestant Reformation were the same. I said that the Anglican Church has a very Calvinistic view of salvation and it does. Look it up.
The English held on to some Catholic teaching.
No they did not. Some of their liturgy is the same, but the differ vastly with regards to theology. Their view of salvation is indistuingishable from that of "Faith alone and Sola Scriptura."
This is why Anglicanism was called the "via media" between Catholicism and Protestantism. The Methodists came from reform movements in the Anglican Church. The Assembly of God came out of reform movements in the Methodist church. Neither one of those are Calvinist, they are Arminian. Calvinism is not compatible with Anglican tradition. Anglicans, notably those in the Oxford Movement, considered Anglicanism the third branch of Roman Catholicism (no Calvinist would ever argue such a thing). One of the leaders of this movement was Blessed John Henry Newman. Another member of this movement was the poet Gerald Manley Hopkins who later converted and became a Jesuit priest.
Yes there are some dioceses that are more conservative such as Africa but they are becomig few and far between.
The Anglican Church in Nigeria is around 18 million; Tanzania 2.5 million. The Episcopal Church is ~2 million. I would not call that few and far between. The conservative, traditional dioceses are the only ones growing, including here in the U.S.
I'm not really sure why you're arguing for. For one you are wrong on lots of your "facts."
But as I said before believe whatever you want.