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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: I have to take exception with your "the only ones not called to chastity is a married couple." ...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said: I have to take exception with your "the only ones not called to chastity is a married couple." The primary definition of chastity is "purity in thought and action." A married couple most definitely is called to be so, just as we all are, maybe even especially so, since marriage is to be the mirroring of God's love for and relationship with the Church, His bride. A husband and wife can commit sexual sin with each other, when they act in lust rather than holy love.
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Well written Lina - I agree, all of us are called to be chaste. And even within marriage we are called to be chaste. Married couples need to realise that their love should reflect the love of God and his church.

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Andy-896770 said: I go to a "Catholic" university, but they allow a GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) group to f...
(Quote) Andy-896770 said:

I go to a "Catholic" university, but they allow a GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) group to form and be promoted on campus. I want to go the group to talk to them about the Church's teaching, but I want to do it in a non-aggrissive, tactful manner yet still not water it down. Any suggestions of how I might approach this?

--hide--


I don't know if this help or not. Everyone at my company knows that I'm a Christian and they asked me last week what I thought of the NBA player who came out and said that he was homosexual.


I thought about it and I was completely honest. I told them that sex outside of marriage is sin, and that marriage is defined between a man and a woman according to God. That having homosexual tendencies was not a sin, but only acting on them was.


Unfortunately most of them were very upset and called me a "homophobe, and a hater." One man did defend me and said, "Did any of you hear what he said?"He said, "Being gay is not a sin, that it's the behavior that is wrong."



They didn't care and just ranted.


I'm sorry but there is no way to discuss this issue in a way that is not going to offend people no matter how politically correct you try and put it.

That's been my experience.


Keith

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Reena-961146 said: What is the purpose of this group, Andy? If I may recommend, find out why the group ...
(Quote) Reena-961146 said:


What is the purpose of this group, Andy? If I may recommend, find out why the group exist, check it out first before you say something, you know? Since you're in a Catholic U, does the group exist to encourage members to live out our Christian virtues? To uphold the teachings of the Church especially on the dignity of a person , chastity, family and all her social teachings?

I encourage you to read the Catechism under Part 3/Life in Christ/10 Commandents/ Second Commandment .

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


So here is my understanding - The Church sees that the inclination to homosexuality is not on itself a sin. It is disordered but not a sin. It is only when people act out on it , is when it's a sin.The same is said to heterosexual people - if we act out on our attraction in a way that is contrary to our vocation to chastity , then it is a sin.

It is interesting that in the catechism , once you read this section , they have a list called Offenses to Chastity - and homosexuality is not in the list.

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Hi Andy, I was going to post these same paragraphs from the Catechism, but Reena beat me to it :-). The church teaching on this is the same for someone with homosexual attraction as it is for a heterosexual oriented non-married person -- chastity. And, just because this group exists, as Reena notes, does not mean it is promoting active behavior. The Church recognizes, as noted above, that the number of persons carrying this cross are not negligble and must be treated with compassion, respect and sensitivity. It also tells us to guard against any sign of unjust discrimination against them.

And, just a note: it is listed as an offense against the dignity of marriage

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

I would suspect the first step, in your position would be to offer in prayer those who are suffering with this burden and pray for the guidance and enlightenment of the Holy Spirit in what and how you are called to proceed.

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: (Quote) Andy-896770 said: Why do you ask why? I guess b...
(Quote) John-220051 said:
Quote:
Andy-896770 said:

Why do you ask why?




I guess because it is my duty as a Catholic to inform the ignorant on important issues and why it's important to follow the Church's teachings. I mean the way I look at things the real issue many Catholics have is agreeing with the Church. I say it's best just to have faith in the Chuch and accept everything she says and if something comes up where I didn't know there was a teaching I would right away just accept it. I mean people can't just disagree with the Church. It's not a democracy or republic. It is a heirarchy and will always be one and will always remain rooted in firm dogmatic teaching.




Groups like that don't care Andy. Nothing will dissuade them from their view that you are a bigot. Not even being nice to them. Christians make a big mistake thinking being nice will make a difference with them.

Their whole goal is to marginalize us and to deprive us of our religious freedom and our conscience rights. I tried the nice route for years in my 20s. It doesn't work.
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I agree. They don't care one bit.

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Keith-965841 said: (Quote) Andy-896770 said: I go to a "Catholic" university, but t...
(Quote) Keith-965841 said:

Quote:
Andy-896770 said:

I go to a "Catholic" university, but they allow a GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) group to form and be promoted on campus. I want to go the group to talk to them about the Church's teaching, but I want to do it in a non-aggrissive, tactful manner yet still not water it down. Any suggestions of how I might approach this?



I don't know if this help or not. Everyone at my company knows that I'm a Christian and they asked me last week what I thought of the NBA player who came out and said that he was homosexual.


I thought about it and I was completely honest. I told them that sex outside of marriage is sin, and that marriage is defined between a man and a woman according to God. That having homosexual tendencies was not a sin, but only acting on them was.


Unfortunately most of them were very upset and called me a "homophobe, and a hater." One man did defend me and said, "Did any of you hear what he said?"He said, "Being gay is not a sin, that it's the behavior that is wrong."



They didn't care and just ranted.


I'm sorry but there is no way to discuss this issue in a way that is not going to offend people no matter how politically correct you try and put it.

That's been my experience.


Keith

--hide--


Exactly. And I would wonder if you might become a target after such a confrontation. Not you keith.... but the OP.....Although we all know we can't share these true beliefs at work..

May 6th 2013 new

Going into the lions' den as such can be a very brave thing to do. I would be sure you pray about it a lot before finalizing your decision. In my experience, the GSA members are militant in their defense of homosexuality and many will not even consider listening to any reasonable discussion of Catholic teaching.

May 6th 2013 new
(Quote) Keith-965841 said: I don't know if this help or not. Everyone at my company knows that I'm a Christian...
(Quote) Keith-965841 said:




I don't know if this help or not. Everyone at my company knows that I'm a Christian and they asked me last week what I thought of the NBA player who came out and said that he was homosexual.




I thought about it and I was completely honest. I told them that sex outside of marriage is sin, and that marriage is defined between a man and a woman according to God. That having homosexual tendencies was not a sin, but only acting on them was.




Unfortunately most of them were very upset and called me a "homophobe, and a hater." One man did defend me and said, "Did any of you hear what he said?"He said, "Being gay is not a sin, that it's the behavior that is wrong."





They didn't care and just ranted.






I'm sorry but there is no way to discuss this issue in a way that is not going to offend people no matter how politically correct you try and put it.





That's been my experience.




Keith

--hide--


Keith, you're right. Militant homosexuals are closed off to the truth. There is no way to reason with them. There is nothing we can do for them other than to pray for them. They love tugging on people's heartstrings by saying that the Catholic Church's teachings causes young homosexuals to commit suicide, but what they don't say is that acceptance of homosexuality does not decrease their elevated levels on suicide.

It just reinforces the politically incorrect position that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental disorders has been detrimental to homosexuals because it has deprived those who need help of the ability to get that help. It also has led to the ostracism of good therapists who work to help people with unwanted same-sex attractions grapple with them.

Homosexuality is an issue that does not have a middle ground.
May 6th 2013 new
(Quote) Marian-83994 said: Exactly. And I would wonder if you might become a target after such a confrontation. Not you keith.... ...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:



Exactly. And I would wonder if you might become a target after such a confrontation. Not you keith.... but the OP.....Although we all know we can't share these true beliefs at work..

--hide--


Yeah. The one thing that happens after you engage militant homosexuals is that you become a target. They will bully you and do everything they can to intimidate you into shutting up. I started getting obscene phone calls in college after I wrote a column on homosexuality. That was 20 years ago. I'm sure it's much worse now.

They are not interested in compromise.
May 6th 2013 new

Sadly, the truth still needs to be told. Esp. since many of the people in a group like that on a college campus have probably never heard the truth, told in the way that you expressed it to your coworkers.

Maybe OP can:
- research the purpose of the group
- write a letter outlining the Church's teachings
- have the letter double-checked by a trusted authority (not some wacko priest)
-- send the letter to the editor of the campus newspaper/magazine
- send a copy to the group
- send a copy to everyone in the Theology department

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Peter, I'm not trying to follow you around with corrections, but all humans are cal...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Peter, I'm not trying to follow you around with corrections, but all humans are called to chastity, regardless of sexual desire or marital status. Chastity is the virtue by which a man chastizes his bodily members to act within accord to reason and choice of will. Chastity is usually applied when one is speaking of the specific work of opposing concupiscence (or the inclination to sin) which comes from venereal pleasures.

I believe this very issue is discussed in the contemporary encyclical letter Casti Connubii (literally "chaste wedlock").

Not everyone is called to perfect continence, e.g., those who are married. Perfect continence is demanded of all of us who are unmarried; it is the virtue by which we with-hold the expression which is proper to the natural sexual desires in human beings. An imperfect continence is demanded of those who are married in that the spouses are not to give any expression of the marital embrace to anyone other than the spouse, i.e., it can be expressed only within chaste wedlock.

--hide--
I used the word chastity wrong in the sense that a married couple isn't called to chastity, mea culpa. A married couple are relieved of the obligation of sexual abstinence.

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