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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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May 09 new
I think your town is very disrespectful and sarcastic which hardly seems Christ like. To have such strong Catholic views cOmmunicated in such negative ways is hard to understand. I am happy to engage when the tone is respectful.
May 09 new
Thanks for your post and I appreciate how complex this is. I have worked closely with many children who lacked health care and who suffered greatly to the point of death. I would find it a lesser moral evil that they receive care then my having a health plan that includes the option for contraception which I would decline. No easy answers.
May 10 new

(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: In my prayerful discernment I concluded that by voting for the party that cares the most for the poor a...
(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: In my prayerful discernment I concluded that by voting for the party that cares the most for the poor and marginalized would reduce the most abortions more than simply legislating which doesn't end abortion but criminalizes it. To the aborted this makes no differences. The countries with the lowest rates of abortion are those with the best healthcare for all not where abortion is illegal. I wish there was a party that was pro life, anti poverty, pro environment, anti corporation, anti death penalty, etc.... That being said, I appreciate any counter point that is respectful of my very sincere faith and will take it under serious consideration as I inform my conscience to choose from among the very imperfect options. There is much in this forum that comes across as throwing stones and hateful, however. To the point of the Illinois bishop I live in North Carolina and my bishop issued information that into full consideration. Please know that it is entirely possible to be a Catholic that practices in the fullest sense and in a very sincere manner and still not vote Republican. I am puzzled by those voting Republican given their policies regarding the poor, the marginalized and God's creation. That being said, I cannot imagine judging their commitment to their faith , the state of their soul or anything else about their state of grace. That is not my place.
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All I can say is that the Bishops could not havbe been any clearer. Some even went so far as to say that no serious Catholic could accept the Democratic party platform. Some even said thay voting for the most pro-abortion candidate places ones soul in mortal jeopardy.

They all emphasised that when the most basic right (life) is denied all other rights are meaningless.

Aside from that, stating that the Republican party has anti poor, the marginalized and Gods creation policies pure unadulterated hokum. Aid to the poor and marginalized has increased under every Republican Administration in my lifetime. And ignoring the nonsense of man caused global warming and all the other idiocies of the extreme environmentalists hardly qualifies as being against God's Creation.

Add the Democratic idiocy of "same sex marriage" to the rest of the mix and it is hard to see how any serious Catholic could possibly vote for Obummer.

And that is not even to argue that the Republicans are that much better. As a party, they are only marginally better. But the fast slide into total Satan inspired hedonism and selfishness demands that we, at the very least, try to slow that slide a bit. Voting for candidates and a party that does not even want God mentioned in their platform only accelerates the slide.,

May 10 new

It is ok that we don't agree. I am educated and devout and I would never presume that you are not also. We just don't see it the same way. I really think we can disagree without sliding into degrading remarks, that is all.

I don't just vote. I try to live my life for poor and disadvantaged. In my circles, those who have dedicated their lives to serving the poor, you don't find many Republicans. I do not think this is coincidental.

That being said; I love to hear other sides that challenge my own perspective (so long as it is intelligent and respectful) and as I said before I do not agree with many aspects of the Democratic party platform which is why I see my responsibility as extending far beyond voting alone.

May 10 new

I found the speech wonderfully inspiring.

I am inspired to not vote Democrat. Ron Paul 2016. Oh, if only Ryan had been the presidential candidate on the ticket, though.

May 11 new

(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: In my prayerful discernment I concluded that by voting for the party that cares the most for the poor a...
(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: In my prayerful discernment I concluded that by voting for the party that cares the most for the poor and marginalized would reduce the most abortions more than simply legislating which doesn't end abortion but criminalizes it. To the aborted this makes no differences. The countries with the lowest rates of abortion are those with the best healthcare for all not where abortion is illegal. I wish there was a party that was pro life, anti poverty, pro environment, anti corporation, anti death penalty, etc.... That being said, I appreciate any counter point that is respectful of my very sincere faith and will take it under serious consideration as I inform my conscience to choose from among the very imperfect options. There is much in this forum that comes across as throwing stones and hateful, however. To the point of the Illinois bishop I live in North Carolina and my bishop issued information that into full consideration. Please know that it is entirely possible to be a Catholic that practices in the fullest sense and in a very sincere manner and still not vote Republican. I am puzzled by those voting Republican given their policies regarding the poor, the marginalized and God's creation. That being said, I cannot imagine judging their commitment to their faith , the state of their soul or anything else about their state of grace. That is not my place.
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You are certainly correct that there is no shortage of hateful stone throwing around here. While I must admit I find it baffeling that a Catholic could ever bring themself to vote Democrat, I understand that there are those with different points of view and different priorities. I sharply disagree with those who scream that everyone who votes Democrat is committing a mortal sin. With that in mind, please take my comments as being said in a friendly tone of voice.

I would suggest that you have fallen pray to some propaganda points. There are some things you might want to consider more carefully.

The line about legislation not "end[ing] abortion but criminalizes it," is an excellent example of the adage that the best lies always have a grain of truth in them. On its face, it is technically true. But when you look at the numbers, there is no comparison. And then there is the moral component.

Laws against rape do not end rape, but they do criminalize it. Should we we legalize rape so that women don't die in back alley attacks? After all, if the rapists didn't have to worry about jail terms, they wouldn't have a motive to murder their victims.

Obviously that's ridiculous. You don't legalize moral atrocities to avoid "criminalizing" the perpetrators, even in those cases where the perpetrator might be a sympathetic figure (such as a young woman/girl). The body count from the oft-talked about back-alley abortions is nowhere near what it is with legalized store-store front abortions. This line of reason is a rationalization, nothing more.

The other place where I think you have been taken in by propaganda is the notion that Democrats care more about the poor and marginalized than Republicans. That is pure myth. The myth is fueled by two different factors.

The first factor is that Democrats and Republicans take very different views on how best to help the poor and marginalized. It is a question of approach, not of compassion. Unfortuantely those approaches lead liberals to conclude that conservatives are cold hearted, selfish and do not care about others and, on the other hand, lead conservatives to conclude that liberals are gullible fools whose weak wills perpetuate the very problems they claim to be fighting against.

The second factor is politics. The folks running for office for either party basically only care about political power. They go about getting it by pandering to different groups. Republican politicians pander to those who hate government, those who hate taxes, etc. Democrat politicians pander to those who hate capitalism, those who believe in the nanny state, etc. So Republicans automatically attack any government programs at all without all that much thought about some things that do need to happen, and Democrats sell snake oil in the form of "social programs" that oh so conveniently will not be paid for by their constituents but the "evil/greedy rich." Sadly these programs are often more about feeling good than doing good (obviously there are exceptions to that).

Lastly, I would point out that it is erroneous to assert that being "anti-corporation" is a tenant of a (theoretical) Catholic political party. The Church rejects both Marxism and unbridled capitolism. Corporations have their place in the universe and are not inherently unethical. It is the ruthless pursuit of money that is the problem, and that does not require a corporation.

May 11 new

(Quote) Sandra-969674 said:... I don't just vote. I try to live my life for poor and disadvantaged. In my circles, those...
(Quote) Sandra-969674 said:...

I don't just vote. I try to live my life for poor and disadvantaged. In my circles, those who have dedicated their lives to serving the poor, you don't find many Republicans. I do not think this is coincidental.

...

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I absolutely agree that it is not coincidental. The two sides approach the problem very differently. I can tell you from experience that Republicans often feel very unwelcome in certain "social justice" circles. Depending on what cause/organization you are talking about, Republicans/conservatives may well avoid those circles like the plague. But it's not because they don't care about serving the poor. It does make for a nice, self-fullfilling prophecy for liberals though. Mind you, I'm not saying that is a deliberate goal. But it does work out that way.

May 11 new

(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: I think your town is very disrespectful and sarcastic which hardly seems Christ like. To have such stro...
(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: I think your town is very disrespectful and sarcastic which hardly seems Christ like. To have such strong Catholic views cOmmunicated in such negative ways is hard to understand. I am happy to engage when the tone is respectful.
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Getting completely away from the topic at hand, there is something you ought to know about the mechanics of the forum.

There are two different ways of viewing these conversations; "flat" and "threaded."

I'm guessing you are using "threaded." In that view, posts are clearly linked to those they are responding to. But it's a bit more cumbersome to read all off the posts. In the "flat" view, all of the posts are displayed in chronological order. It's very easy to see what everyone has said, but there is no link between posts and their replies.

The point is that nobody here using the "flat" view has any idea of who you are replying to...unless you include the original (or all) posts in your reply.

May 11 new
Hi John, Thanks for the food for thought and the tip about posting (I'll need some help with how to post it the way you advised...) I doubt I have fallen prey to propaganda ( I do not even own a TV.) Again, I think comments like this imply a person cannot come to their conclusions other than falsly. I whole heartedly believe that well intended and well informed people can differ in their conclusions and that this is a strength of a healthy democracy. One area I am curious about is why the bishops do not include the death penalty in their list of non negotiables?
May 12 new

(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: Hi John, Thanks for the food for thought and the tip about posting (I'll need some help with how to...
(Quote) Sandra-969674 said: Hi John, Thanks for the food for thought and the tip about posting (I'll need some help with how to post it the way you advised...) I doubt I have fallen prey to propaganda ( I do not even own a TV.) Again, I think comments like this imply a person cannot come to their conclusions other than falsly. I whole heartedly believe that well intended and well informed people can differ in their conclusions and that this is a strength of a healthy democracy. One area I am curious about is why the bishops do not include the death penalty in their list of non negotiables?
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Simple, under Church doctrine the death penalty is permissible. The most that has been said is when John Paul II said that in most developed countries it is not necessary. But he did not disapprove its use officially.

Individually, we are free to take either side on the issue.

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